[Max Cola]

[negativedge]

But we actually have reasons.

[Sketch]

[Broco]

What? How is not being able to kill friendly NPCs "lazy"? Most friendly NPCs already have a death ragdoll, collision mesh and sound effects, since they can be killed by the enemy. Making them killable by you as well would be little more than a matter of flipping a flag. It was a conscious design decision to stop the player from undermining the narrative.

Also, saying the game is only half as good because of a detail like that... Jesus. I guess all the Zeldas, and a zillion other games are automatically crap to you as well.

Based on your criteria I don't understand why you bother with Half-Life in the first place. Go play Halo.

[Mr. Mechanical]

Watch out Broco, don't get him started on Halo. I think he's still a bit sour on that whole "you can only carry two weapons at time" thing.
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[remote]

[Sketch]

I was exaggerating with the NPC thing. Jesus people, get a grip. Though I did find it deeply annoying, and ruined any sense of believeability (how anyone can bring Zelda into the equation I don't know - my point is, the first one allowed you to kill NPCs, so why backtrack for HL2?).

As for Ravenholm, I hated it. The worst level in the game for me, since it brought back hideous twisted memories of The Flood, in Halo. Which, I'd like to add, I think is one of the worst FPS games I've played. My favourites, on the other hand, include HL1, Deus Ex and System Shock 2. I also quite liked Killzone, despite only being able to carry three guns.

The sole thing I liked HL2 was that the jeep sections reminded me of the Mad Max films, and maybe the crane section. Otherwise, I felt under whelmed.

I seem to be totally out of touch with mainstream thought. So I'm leaving this topic. You people are all correct, and I just don't get it. Carry on with the discussion.

[remote]

[jdoe]

Are you asking of the opportunity to kill the main NPCs, find out you can't proceed through the game, and then reload and not kill them?

I don't see how that remotely adds anything to the game other than making it more frustrating. From what I've read, Valve puts high priority on streamlining and making the game as accessible as possible. Half-Life 2 is a testament to that.

Also, the NPCs (Alex) in Episode 1 can be killed.

[remote]

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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[Max Cola]

Concerned is by far the best thing to have resulted from Half-Life 2.
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Everybody hurts sometimes

[Aaron]

HL2 is the most dull game I've played in recent memory. What little story there is is trite, and ends with 'now go through this highly dangerous area that no one could possibly survive. oh, and here's a wrench.' The areas are so linear they're practically on rails with no freedom of thought. The weapons for the most part are stuff that's been done better elsewhere, ten years ago. The physics are a gimmick and get old after fifteen minutes. And did anyone say how reality breaking it is to have infinite ammo containers in a game like this?

I tried to like it. I really did. But it's just garbage. The brief story is a waste of time, I don't care about any of the characters, especially the frickin' mute I'm taking the role of, and the combat isn't satisfying, but at least is better than the vehicle sections. Ravenholm was pretty good, but the rest was a snooze.

[negativedge]

I don't think you get it.

There isn't supposed to be a "story." You are Gordon. You show up on a train, and from that moment on, you are running. You don't get exposition because, dude, you wouldn't get exposition if some motherfucking aliens were chasing you.

[remote]

What? No, there is definitely a story taking place -- everything that happens in the game is exposition, even the action between the "talking points". You are Gordon, yes, inasmuch as Gordon is a carefully crafted "empty vessel" sort of character -- though still a character within a story -- which I find to be much better suited to the first person experience than a "full" character such as JC Denton (of Deus Ex, which even switches to third-person view for cutscenes). I think the folks who constantly bitch about him being a mute are just lacking in imagination or a sense of humor. I mean, it's not as if the game doesn't poke fun at itself for things like this ("Man of few words, eh?"). If they took away the freedom of movement during talking points, gave Freeman a voice and lines to speak, etc. ... well, people would bitch about that, too. So while Freeman is the empty vessel which the player occupies while playing the game, other characters around him, most importantly Alyx, form the human and emotional core of the story. Which is why she's so damn likeable: she's there for you.

Anyway, I simply and flatly disagree with almost every point Aaron raised. Especially the bits about "no freedom of thought" (what) and the physics being a gimmick.
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[Aaron]

The reason I complain about him being mute is the result makes all the cut-scenes have this socially awkward aura about them, as if everyone knows you're a loony, but has to play along from fear of getting trounced by his moustache. Which is cool for all of five seconds, then it's just dull and I don't care about anything going on in the game. Then since my actions don't really matter anyway, and the gunplay is dull, there's not much point playing. I stuck with it for a while though. Up to the lighthouse and the helicopter, but the moment I saw the crate full of infinite ammo I just shook my head and walked away.

Half-life 1 was always moving forward so there really wasn't time to think about this sort of thing. HL2 doesn't even really start until almost half an hour in, and goes on extended coffee breaks during the proceedings.

[remote]

Do you play the Metal Gear Solid games, Aaron?
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[Sketch]

I do. I love the Metal Gear Solid games. I also geuinely like the long CODEC cut-scenes. When I first played the PS1 game, it was like, yes! At last!

The lack of dialogue or many story-scenes didn't bother in HL2 though. Since there weren't really any in HL1 either.

[Aaron]

[remote]

Also,

[Intentionally Wrong]

Research indicates that we rarely like things for the reasons we think they like them. We're also statistically terrible at predicting whether we'll be happy in a particular situation. Once you understand this, you should realize how absurd it is to think you'll be able to persuade Szczepaniak or Aaron or whoever to enjoy Half-Life 2 just by arguing about it: enjoyment is not a result of intellectual consideration; rather, our intellects are drawn to consider those aspects of a thing which support our enjoyment (or lack thereof).
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JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.

[Aaron]

[negativedge]

[Rucio]

I have a theory that when people say they feel the game is empty, perhaps they mean that the game makes them feel lonely.

HL2 is a very lonely game. There aren't explicit out of character cutscenes, or a helper computer or some dedicated backup team. It's you in a big world, moving forward, and feeling really lonely. HL2 EP1 is not, for the most part, lonely.

Alyx really keeps the game a bit more lighthearted, and I feel she really adds to the whole experience.
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"Say, that's a nice fez!"
"Thank you very much. Why do you like it?"
"It's better than a sharp stick in the eye."

[dmauro]

I don't understand how the infinite ammo crates are reality breaking? The surreality of it could only be exposed if you sat at a crate firing off missiles for a half an hour. It's not like those crates couldn't hold enough ammo to last you as long as they generally do, and I wouldn't have even noticed if the crates had been set with a large, finite amount of ammo instead.

[Broco]

[CubaLibre]

[remote]

[Broco]

[The Troops]

thats because alyx is a woman and all women are controlling bitches

[The Troops]

note also:

when breen asks "what exactly have you created"

this hints at the baby freeman and alyx will have together in hl2 episode three in the wake of the libido killing machine

half-life 3 will be one man's epic quest for custody

[remote]

[Maztorre]

[remote]

This has been suggested!

http://antitype.livejournal.com/463460.html

I'd change some things about that LJ entry if I wrote it now, but it was fun to notice the similarities back when I first saw Children of Men in January.
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[Intentionally Wrong]

[remote]

What you said made perfect sense, Mr. Wrong, but I don't think I'm actually trying to convince Aaron or Szczepaniak or anyone else that they should like HL2. I love it, they don't; all this intellectual consideration comes after the fact, and our difference of opinions encourages it. It's just a discussion.
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[Intentionally Wrong]

Antitype, I understand. I mean, I do the same thing all the time--when someone claims to hate something I loved, I have a hard time not challenging their claims. I just think it's important for everybody to remember that while it's very possible to mistakenly believe you're feeling one thing when you're actually feeling something else, it's mostly impossible to convince someone to feel pleasure about an experience that they've concluded is unpleasurable.
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JSNLV is frequently and intentionally wrong.

[chompers po pable]

[CubaLibre]

[CubaLibre]

Oh yeah, I guess I was sposed to post my big HL2 theory. As backstory, I was trying to convince E. Megas, who's a huge fan of Xenogears and narrative in games and dislikes the blank-slate character of Gordon Freeman, to give HL2 a try. You can read the whole thread here. (Special guest appearance by John Hummel! - actually that's who I'm responding to in this theory post.)

[remote]

Great observations. I am right behind you with these high hopes and expectations, Cuba. Valve have certainly proven so far that they are all about self-assertion and rebellion, and they're a bunch of really smart people, so I have faith that they'll do the right thing.
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam

[remote]

Cuba, I just read that whole thread at LPN. Well, the first page, anyway -- before it degenerated into a drama-fest (though the subsequent Xenogears discussion was nice. I've still got quite a soft spot for that game, imperfect as it is). Good stuff! You were pretty thoroughly on point for the whole duration, while this Megas guy was mostly jamming his fingers in his ears and screaming I'M NOT LISTENING LALALA (CAPS CAPS CAPS). Your efforts were noble and extremely articulate! Though you never convinced him, you were the true victor.
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letterboxd | last.fm | steam