I agree with Txt. I might replay it, but that's, what, another three hours because I'll skip cutscenes? I'd recommend playing it, but not paying full price.
Talbain join me in the 30 dollar club. It's like getting excited for a video game release date, only one day you're going to wake up with a CAG alert email. _________________ My Hawt Blog Vita Games
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People seem to say it's pretty balanced between the two. The 360 marginally has a more stable framerate and the PS3 version usually has a sharper image quality on textures along with better working shadow effects, but it seems like it only shows if you go looking for these things.
I would say don't buy it unless you think a game you can casually crush in one sitting can be $60 worth of fun. I mean like rent it if you can?
Does beating a game on normal mode constitute "crushing" it?
Well I've done three playthroughs, normal, hard, and a normal with the wooden sword (which was way too easy) and all of them have taken me sub 5 hours. I mean, obviously the first took more time because of cutscenes which I skipped in subsequent playthroughs. I could probably beat it twice more today on very hard and whatever comes after but I'm not sure if having an identical experience with slightly increased difficulty is really something I'm all that interested in doing. I'm not trying to knock the game, really, but I don't see what you could really want to get out of this game that can't be done in a rental period - even for someone with a busy schedule. Maybe "crushing it" is the wrong language choice or a bit of an exaggeration, but you can pick pretty much any difficulty available and complete it in one sitting.
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:08 pm
TXTSWORD wrote:
I don't see what you could really want to get out of this game that can't be done in a rental period.
Does this count the VR Missions? The story sequences involve a variety of set-pieces that can be negotiated in a few different ways, most obviously by charging in and fighting. Getting top score in the VR missions can be quite a bit more challenging, and I expect that they'll offer more of these as the game's digital "shelf life" of continued updates to content grows.
The VR Missions have the feel of the older MGS games' VR Missions. You need to learn how to exploit the level design and enemy AI in order to get the time down. _________________
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:18 pm
TXTSWORD wrote:
In fairness, I'm omitting the VR Missions.
I think that the VR Missions are finding their legs in execution right now, and they require focusing upon individual mechanics and honing your execution of /exploitation of those mechanics. This is different from the main game, where you can restart the same set pieces a few different times while trying a particular strategy, get bored, and then just Square Button your way through.
A couple of examples... getting top score in one of the AI missions requires being seen at a distance by one of the guards, then taking advantage of how every other guard in the level coordinates their movements with respect to that sighting. In another, getting top score requires using the Ninja Run triangle attack against charging Raging Raven wing enemies rather than parrying those attacks (which I haven't been able to do, if it's possible at all, despite the fact that they're flashing orange). _________________
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:36 pm
TXTSWORD wrote:
Are you sure it's ninja run and not the jump+triangle attack?
Yeah. They fly low enough to cream you when you're standing on the ground, and the jump+triangle attack has a windup that can make timing difficult to gauge when they're moving in quickly. The ninja run triangle is pretty instantaneous with immediate recovery. _________________
I have only played the demo, but I figure MGR is similar to other Platinum games: as in, the generous checkpoints are detrimental to the experience. I compare them to arcade games: just how fun can be to credit feed them till the end. This is unavoidable nowadays I guess, but these games would really work well with limited lives/continues.
I have only played the demo, but I figure MGR is similar to other Platinum games: as in, the generous checkpoints are detrimental to the experience. I compare them to arcade games: just how fun can be to credit feed them till the end. This is unavoidable nowadays I guess, but these games would really work well with limited lives/continues.
It depends on what you're playing them for, I suppose. A large part of the appeal of "extreme action" games (DMC/Bayonetta/MGR/etc) is how stylish the combat is. Sure, you can scrub you way through the entire game thanks to the checkpoints and unlimited continues, but where's the fun in that? These types of game are always the most fun once you've gotten really good at them and can pull off all sorts of crazy stuff and consistently get high scores on battles on the harder difficulties.
This applies to the issue of the game's replayability as well. If you want to play MGR solely to "beat" it, yeah, I wouldn't say it's worth paying full price for. If you want to play it and be good at it, it's definitely worth the price.
I'm slowly fumbling my way through my first playthrough on Normal and having lots of fun. I plan on replaying it on Hard as soon as I finish and having even more fun.
Talbain join me in the 30 dollar club. It's like getting excited for a video game release date, only one day you're going to wake up with a CAG alert email.
I just might, I still need to finish P3P and Jeanne D'Arc. I'm not sure I want to beat Margaret, but given that I'm doing a perfect social link run, I feel like I might as well. _________________
I agree with that, idle - on my first "normal" playthrough I was having a decently easy time because the difficulty isn't really demanding, but I could see in the mechanics where there was so much more to it and that the harder difficulties would be more exciting as you learn to play it really well and the game actually demanded that of you. My hard playthrough was actually easier than my normal playthrough, though, mostly because of my upgraded equipment. Really though after playing this three times I feel like the story presence just invades too much for me to keep going at it. I just want the raw gameplay, let me skip the rest. Let me opt out of the codec sequences without having to mash through every one, stop making go through the emotional raiden slog and the boss fights that are cutscenes that your performance is irellevant in but you HAVE to sit through and participate. It's all fine for purely experiencing a first playthrough but beyond that I want to be able to enjoy pure mechanics.
This is different from the main game, where you can restart the same set pieces a few different times while trying a particular strategy, get bored, and then just Square Button your way through.
To be fair, I think MGR does a good job of what MGS does in general: making it constantly clear that what you're capable of exceeds what it's asking of you, so that being precise and playing as though choreographing (or, in another sense, role-playing) constitutes as legitimate a play experience as being tested to the absolute limits of your mechanical options or the limits of your skill at employing certain of them and playing as though always desperately on the verge of death/failure. I mean, you can "just Square Button your way through," for sure, but you'll have your support team mock you in real time for not being stealthy instead, you'll have the game show you an unspectacular score sheet as soon as the fight's over, you may spend a healing item or two during the fight and thus not have as many as you may want later, etc. The game lets you advance this way, but not without some protest, just as you can blitz many parts of some of the MGS games, running from point A to point B without a care in the world for all the guys with guns shooting at you, but not without the game yelling at you in various ways that you're "playing wrong" by caring so little about how you advance (which amounts to the game's communicating to you that how you advance is what it's trying to make you care about as much as that you advance).
I could say more about that from just an experiential/play-narrative perspective, but that's not really the point here, so on another note: by the sound of it, as you go higher up in difficulty (through Very Hard to Revengeance), all those aspects of play which the game merely mocks you for neglecting to care about on lower difficulties become increasingly necessary to advancing at all. Being stealthy at times (and thus knowing how to be stealthy) instead of always hackin' 'n slashin' your way through certain parts will probably, on the Revengeance difficulty, mean surviving when otherwise you really just wouldn't. Avoiding all damage (which doubles as conserving healing items for when a safety net's absolutely necessary, which it's probably very likely to be) becomes less a way to earn a little extra BP and maybe an S rank if you care about such things, and more the only way to get through any fight or series of fights, period. Something like learning/practicing in VR Missions how to Zandatsu all enemies in a series of groups within one very strict time limit would probably then translate directly back into your Story experience, in that the particular skills that feat takes (knowing what enemy type to target first, knowing how to make particular enemy types vulnerable to Zandatsu as quickly as possible without also just going overboard and killing them outright, practicing speed and precision in Blade Mode, and so on) are the very skills you will finally need just to get by, on the higher difficulties.
EDIT: Bleh, other people said some of this while I was intermittently typing it.
Last edited by Grant Dempsey on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Let me opt out of the codec sequences without having to mash through every one
You don't have to mash, in case that's why those bits frustrate you. You can just hold down the triangle button and it has the same effect as mashing through (gets through them a little more quickly, in fact).
most of the arguments were already made for me, but i'll also point out that (especially above Hard) more changes about the game than just damage values. enemy distribution changes a lot—their behavior, aggressiveness, and even the existence of certain attacks with it.
in any case, if simply ramming your way through to the end credits to be able to say you did is your main goal i suspect most games of this sort are not going to be especially satisfying, yeah. part of engaging with them beyond that is going to involve making your own fun, but even then i think the game itself explicitly offers more outlets for one's attention than it's getting credit for.
i just want to point out again, though, that Hard is not really that dramatic a step up from Normal, especially working with an upgraded character (if anyone's judgments are based on their experiences with that). Hard seems to have been designed to just be an alternate starting point along with Easy and Normal. Very Hard and Revengeance difficulty are the ARE YOU READY FOR ROUND 2?!?!?! difficulties.
also i really kind of wish everyone just started with hard but oh well
Last edited by analogos on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
i just want to point out again, though, that Hard is not really that dramatic a step up from Normal, especially working with an upgraded character (if anyone's judgments are based on their experiences with that). Hard seems to have been designed to just be an alternate starting point along with Easy and Normal. Very Hard and Revengeance difficulty are the ARE YOU READY FOR ROUND 2?!?!?! difficulties.
also i really kind of wish everyone just started with hard but oh well
Hard as a second go at the game is a great chance to play more fully with some of the unlockable content before Taking The Plunge, though. I'm happy enough with this progression not to half-regret coasting through Normal first anymore.
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:18 pm
idle wrote:
If you want to play MGR solely to "beat" it, yeah, I wouldn't say it's worth paying full price for. If you want to play it and be good at it, it's definitely worth the price.
This was the point I was trying to make with the VR Missions. Better written here. Thanks! _________________
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:24 pm
analogos wrote:
part of engaging with them beyond that is going to involve making your own fun
For example, cutting off all the limbs of a soldier until he's literally a squirming torso on the ground, and then bounding him with a drum can as you tumble back and forth over him like a bread roller.
Bonus points if your drum can wears a mariachi hat. _________________
part of engaging with them beyond that is going to involve making your own fun
For example, cutting off all the limbs of a soldier until he's literally a squirming torso on the ground, and then bounding him with a drum can as you tumble back and forth over him like a bread roller.
Bonus points if your drum can wears a mariachi hat.
It's when one can do this even mid-fight on the Revengeance difficulty that one will have truly become a Son Of The Patriots.
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:39 pm
Grant Dempsey wrote:
Adilegian wrote:
analogos wrote:
part of engaging with them beyond that is going to involve making your own fun
For example, cutting off all the limbs of a soldier until he's literally a squirming torso on the ground, and then bounding him with a drum can as you tumble back and forth over him like a bread roller.
Bonus points if your drum can wears a mariachi hat.
It's when one can do this even mid-fight on the Revengeance difficulty that one will have truly become a Son Of The Patriots.
I feel like people are taking what I've said as me just rushing to the credits and finding no value in the game, but in actuality I agree with what a lot of you are saying and I've admittedly not tried very hard or many of the VR missions. I simply don't think this is a title I care to own for long enough to justify a $65 purchase that I did on impulse. But hey some of you guys can probably get a lot more out of it for much longer and if that's the case then by all means its probably worth owning.
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:49 am
TXTSWORD wrote:
I've admittedly not cut off all the limbs of a soldier until he's literally a squirming torso on the ground, and then bounded him with a drum can as I tumble back and forth over him like a bread roller.
This is the crucial experience that you're missing.
Also the mariachi hat.
Thinking about Raiden's character development, it's interesting to see a game within the Metal Gear universe that develops Raiden closer to his own terms rather than to the terms delineated by a player/actor relationship or his relationship with Snake. In MGS2, there was the mediating experience of the VR regimen along with Raiden's idolization of Solid Snake. The distance between Jack the Ripper and Raiden and, one step further, his own identity free of the player's name is mediated by that legendary merc.
In other words, Raiden's core struggle is determining who he is apart from Solid Snake and the player's character. Those are the contrasts that he struggles to work through. That's why I'm calling them "mediators" of his self-reflection.
That mediation isn't in Rising. Raiden's near compulsive introspection is set off by people who were apparently like him in background or temperament, except without a mediating "legend" to borrow the ideal of ideals from.
So, to use the game's own wincing resurrection of the whole "meme" angle: Raiden begins the game with the set of memes derived from his experience with Solid Snake & co, in particular the "tool of justice" angle. There's also an energy that underlies that -- a legitimate pleasure in murder that cannot be rewritten within him because it's how he was raised -- which the Solid Snake memes obscure and "tame."
So Raiden's got a few different things going on. He uses the meme set {tool of justice + protect the weak + they made me this way} as a guiding force to determine his targets. Once those targets are identified, however, the moral decisions can be considered "completed," allowing him to slaughter with abandon. The turning point in the whole "listen to their voices" segment near the start of World Marshal HQ involves breaking down that barrier past which Raiden could feel comfortable that action is unambiguously moral.
The fact that Raiden had not considered this as of that moment in Rising is an example of bad writing, I think. He's been killing forever, and all it takes is for him to meet someone with a set of ideals to direct his introspection inward forever. I think it's utterly implausible that he would not have considered this by now.
Fortunately, the game bounds back with the whole Jack the Ripper awakening. This actually serves to reinforce the relationship between bloodlust and Solid Snake meme ideals. The threshold past which moral ambiguity is a nil question stays in the exact same place for Raiden. (He can still kill cyborgs without hesitation.) His understanding of that happens past that threshold, however, changes. He formerly thought that his decisions were morally responsible with respect to that threshold, and now he's got to accept that, fuck it, I do enjoy all the killing.
Except for that crucial piece of bad writing -- that Raiden never thought about that ambiguity until now -- Rising does a better job of identifying the character with the "terrorist or hero" gray area than the previous MGSes did. Snake was always able to stop thinking about the problem once he beat New Metal Gear, and he's the player's character so HEY HERO.
_________________
Last edited by Adilegian on Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total
I think the game is just dumb and frustrating so far. I don't get it, sometimes I'll block every time in a fight other times I'll just keep doing a combo and let myself get wailed on, usually with some move where I get tossed up in the air and got to stare at that shit for five seconds before it lets me play again. It's really dumb how sneaking around you can kill guys in one hit that would otherwise take a 30 minute fight of just whacking on them over and over until some part of them finally starts glowing to show you can cut them now. I don't know why sometimes I've restarted checkpoints keeping what healing thing I had and other times I restart with none either. I don't know why sometimes after just hitting a guy a couple times it suddenly lets me do some instant kill move. I don't like how the camera whips around like crazy or the wrestling game targeting system in a fast paced action game or how you have to cut every door but you still get hung up on the door pieces trying to get through the doorway. And other times it seems too easy but still tedious and all you have to do is run circles around people while hitting square. The tutorial was so useless I don't know why it was even in the game. The codec is way better than MGS4's though, I like that. But I think I just don't like these types of games. I never liked DMC or God of War and never played an Platinum games games before. Mastering button presses and whatnot has always been my least favorite part of playing games. _________________
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Spacecraft, Juanelia Country
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:33 am
Adilegian wrote:
TXTSWORD you should also play through the entirety of the game with Lost and Found : Shadow the Hedgehog Vocal Trax going at max volume in the background.
TXTSWORD you should also play through the entirety of the game with Lost and Found : Shadow the Hedgehog Vocal Trax going at max volume in the background.
METAL GEAR RISING: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Sonic Butt-Rock
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