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MG: rising revenging or re-Shinobi
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Adilegian
Rogue Scholar


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:19 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
Felix wrote:
I played the demo and I had a real hard time with the lack of a roll move.


i felt that way at first too but [in addition to what botagel said about the dodge slash] once you realize just how powerful (and frankly pretty easy) blocking and parrying is this just sorts to start rolling right off your back and you get what the game's going for. i appreciate having a game of this sort where you actually have to kind of stand your ground instead of just zipping away to safety any time you panic.

Yes. It's pretty godhand-esque in that regard. Get in tight, stay close, zandatsu.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:21 am        Reply with quote

BotageL wrote:
Felix wrote:
I played the demo and I had a real hard time with the lack of a roll move.

The dodge-slash (light attack + jump, in any direction) seems to work pretty well for that. Especially since you can cancel into it from other attacks.

I... didn't know about this! I've been sprinting to avoid grabs and then taking their backs.
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Grant Dempsey
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:37 am        Reply with quote

It's a skill you've got to purchase. Called Defensive Offense or something like that. Unless this is a different dodge-slash we're talking about.

I think you can even cancel it into itself, and unlike parrying it's not strictly a response move, so you can create quite a bit of distance and pretty quickly by dodge-slashing repeatedly.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:54 am        Reply with quote

I just surprised myself with this.

Lock onto Dwarf Gekko on the ground, ninja run, then hard attack while ninja running. This will pop the Dwarf Gekko in the air, give you a little slowdown prompt. Go into Cutting Mode, and you'll dice while you're on your back sliding.
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Drem



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:23 am        Reply with quote

You can also do this on regular enemies. It feels great sliding through a group of guys and dicing me some sashimi.
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analogos
bravely default crying fairy


Joined: 10 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:35 am        Reply with quote

adi why are you so bad help
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:47 am        Reply with quote

Can somebody persuade me that Sundowner has more than two or three attacks and one counterattack? I was worried about that fight on top of ReMistral/ReMonsoon and everything else in File R-04, but after I felt it out a bit, he turned out to be tremendously manipulable. He fought kind of like a mellowed out Solidus. He never even got around to swinging the big pillars at me the way he does in one of the trailers. I'm curious what he looks like on higher difficulties.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:38 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
adi why are you so bad help

Slow buildup!

ALT: Verbal genius.

ALT ALT: Yer fired.
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BotageL
pretty anime princess


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:45 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
BotageL wrote:
Felix wrote:
I played the demo and I had a real hard time with the lack of a roll move.

The dodge-slash (light attack + jump, in any direction) seems to work pretty well for that. Especially since you can cancel into it from other attacks.

I... didn't know about this! I've been sprinting to avoid grabs and then taking their backs.

Yeah, it's one of the moves that was "free" in the demo but you have to buy in the full game, which is probably a bad idea since it means people are missing it.
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108
fairy godmilf


Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: oakland, california

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:50 am        Reply with quote

so hey, how long is this game? i'm wondering if i will have time to weekend it, and don't want to google "how long is metal gear rising" because spoilers etc

specifying the length in terms of other metal gear solid games works for me :3
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klj5j6li
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:57 am        Reply with quote

108 wrote:
so hey, how long is this game? i'm wondering if i will have time to weekend it, and don't want to google "how long is metal gear rising" because spoilers etc

specifying the length in terms of other metal gear solid games works for me :3


probably like 10 hours on normal mode
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:32 am        Reply with quote

Interstellar Dinghy wrote:
108 wrote:
so hey, how long is this game? i'm wondering if i will have time to weekend it, and don't want to google "how long is metal gear rising" because spoilers etc

specifying the length in terms of other metal gear solid games works for me :3


probably like 10 hours on normal mode

This is about how much time I put into my first playthrough on Normal. The game seems to be designed around being able to get only as much out of it as you want. If you're looking for more stuff, there'll be more stuff in the standard MGS and Platinum ways (lots of codec conversations, little hidden missions amid a linear level playthrough, VR missions, and so on). I expect there's going to be more of the link coming down the pipes in DLC as well. But, yeah, overall the main game is paced well though some of the latter levels feel abrupt.

No wait, I just got my ending rank and apparently I beat it in less than 8 hours. So there's that.
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klj5j6li
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
No wait, I just got my ending rank and apparently I beat it in less than 8 hours. So there's that.


That doesn't count cutscenes and is the sum of all your successful attempts' times, so it doesn't count deaths either.
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Ronnoc



Joined: 26 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:37 am        Reply with quote

Yeah, my ending rank was 3 1/2 and it was not that.


I'm a bit sad that one of the DLC lets you play as Wolf because I <3 him
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Schwere Viper



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:02 am        Reply with quote

Aaaaaaah guess what broke street date today~

Yesyeyesyesyesyesyes
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:49 am        Reply with quote

MGR really wants to be the anti-TDKR.

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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:04 am        Reply with quote

I've been thinking today about how Revengeance reflects and distorts the "feel" of Metal Gear. Some starting thoughts:

* Revengeance is what Metal Gear looks like without the varnish of faux military seriousness.

* That notwithstanding, the sci-fi seriousness of Revengeance puts it well in the camp of MGS1 and MGS2 for building its world out of purportedly "hard tech" concepts.

* The trademark remixing of series elements still communicates a concept, except this time, without the same kind of thematic import, the concept is "lol this is a Metal Gear game."

Specifically, I'm thinking of Raiden's half-Kitamura half-slapstick descent from the armed drones back into the helicopter, only to fall from well above the skyline back into Denver's concrete, which earns him a Big Boss Salute from Doktor and, later, the recognition that "haha you fell."

* The final boss is Volgin and Solidus put into a blender and then re-skinned as post-middle aged Frank West.

* The game also plays finely along the line of being half-Platinum half-stealth in that there are a number of different ways to approach given set pieces. I remember, particularly, a hostage-rescue set piece as Raiden's escaping Denver. There's one guard with his back to Raiden on an elevated concrete outcrop, and, next to the hostage, there are the token two guards and a heavy bipedal mech. I tried a variety of ways to approach it to save the dude, and I ultimately settled on using ninja-run with the FOX sword, one-hit slicing the guard on the outcrop, then running to hide behind some APVs. Then I threw a distortion grenade to disable the guards near the prisoner, cut them down, and took on the armored mech. I know there's got to be a different way to approach that, and I'm very curious to see how the scenario changes with the unlocked subweapons (which I didn't mess with at all during my first playthrough).

* I really liked the nod to Peace Walker after the penultimate boss fight as Armstrong emerged from a spherical control chamber as seen atop the AI-Boss.

* I also thought it was interesting that the game's Metal Gear was largely unannounced, presented as a matter of course. It fits with the general feel of the game: it's ignoring many of the explicit conventions of the majority of the Metal Gear series such as the relevance of a doomsday weapon which, at least, appeared in MGS4 as the Outer Haven yet all the while envelops itself in recognizable calling cards from the series in terms of pacing, atmospheric elements, etc.

This is basically a really good example of what I think Kojima might have wanted his own internal team to have done... to create a post-Kojima Metal Gear title. I'm interested to see what other teams might do with the IP. This is Platinum putting on the costume and finding where it fills it out best, and I'd like to see other teams with idiosyncratic or even niche styles attempt the same.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:29 am        Reply with quote

Also this conversation just happened.

Wife: "You have a new Metal Gear. Why aren't you playing your new Metal Gear."

Me: "Oh, I just want time to think." [reflective pause] "About Metal Gear."

Sudden revelations.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:53 am        Reply with quote

Also liked: the fact that the cutscenes and setpieces of the trailers were disinformative.

EDIT: I also find that Boris has a younger Old Snake appearance due to his mustache as well as the basic facial structure.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:25 am        Reply with quote

That's funny, I was just thinking that in the Phantom Pain trailer Big Boss looks exactly like an older younger Old Snake.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:45 am        Reply with quote

Grant Dempsey wrote:
That's funny, I was just thinking that in the Phantom Pain trailer Big Boss looks exactly like an older younger Old Snake.

Going by level design, the starting section of the last level looks a whole lot like how I remember the opening of Ground Zeroes looking. Isn't there supposed to be some kind of connection between those games?
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:01 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
* I also thought it was interesting that the game's Metal Gear was largely unannounced, presented as a matter of course. It fits with the general feel of the game: it's ignoring many of the explicit conventions of the majority of the Metal Gear series such as the relevance of a doomsday weapon which, at least, appeared in MGS4 as the Outer Haven yet all the while envelops itself in recognizable calling cards from the series in terms of pacing, atmospheric elements, etc.

Yeah, and on top of that, this game's Metal Gear purports to be a response to terrorism, rather than its enabler. Raiden himself turns out to be the thing established [framed] as a "terror weapon," the entire game up to that point turning out to have been a demonstration/cultivation of his (physical and moral) capacities as such, and Metal Gear EXCELSUS is what rises triumphantly to squash him for Great American Justice. It's ultimately the same type of fight: one small man is pitted against a giant bestial machine. But their narrative roles are reversed.

I'd kind of like to imagine that Armstrong does indeed continue to have live footage of what's happening at that base broadcast as Raiden fights the Metal Gear. The thought of millions of Americans glued to their TVs to watch one of their Senators personally endeavor to crush a big bad terrorist in Pakistan with the help of one of the latest and greatest products from our friends at World Marshal, Metal Gear EXCELSUS™, is great. The post-Patriots war culture in a nutshell.


Last edited by Grant Dempsey on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:03 am        Reply with quote

Just as a small observation... at the Customize screen, you can toggle the new moves you unlock off an on. I don't know how this would effect the gameplay, but it's worth noting as a feature that could have unintended consequences nonetheless.
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Grant Dempsey
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Joined: 04 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:12 am        Reply with quote

Are there moves that, if "equipped," will prevent you from performing other moves? That's the only reason I can think of, other than not liking certain moves and wanting to make it impossible to perform them accidentally, that might make toggling moves important.
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Moogs



Joined: 06 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:09 am        Reply with quote

maybe some sort of nod to godhand's move menu?
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analogos
bravely default crying fairy


Joined: 10 Jun 2007

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:11 am        Reply with quote

Grant Dempsey wrote:
Are there moves that, if "equipped," will prevent you from performing other moves? That's the only reason I can think of, other than not liking certain moves and wanting to make it impossible to perform them accidentally, that might make toggling moves important.


there aren't any overlapping moves, no. i'm not really going to second guess it, though. customization for customization's sake is nice. if anything i just think of it as being able to fine-tune your difficulty level. Very Hard with a fully upgraded Raiden (not even counting the ridiculous unlockables) is a whole other deal from raw Very Hard.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:12 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
Grant Dempsey wrote:
Are there moves that, if "equipped," will prevent you from performing other moves? That's the only reason I can think of, other than not liking certain moves and wanting to make it impossible to perform them accidentally, that might make toggling moves important.


there aren't any overlapping moves, no. i'm not really going to second guess it, though. customization for customization's sake is nice. if anything i just think of it as being able to fine-tune your difficulty level. Very Hard with a fully upgraded Raiden (not even counting the ridiculous unlockables) is a whole other deal from raw Very Hard.

Hell yeah.
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Drem



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:05 am        Reply with quote

It took me over 7 hours (hey, there are a lot of codec conversations!), somewhere towards the end of mission 2, to realize I never tried pressing R2. The ability to lock-on to enemies is amazing.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:09 am        Reply with quote

I just found out that if you cut off an enemy's legs and just walk away, the enemy will disappear (as in fade off-screen, rather than explode). Do this for all enemies in a given battle and you'll get a No Kills bonus like the No Damage bonus.

So MGR's got its own form of non-lethal play after all. Much harder than tranqing people from eight miles away.
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klj5j6li
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:36 am        Reply with quote

Grant Dempsey wrote:
So MGR's got its own form of non-lethal play after all.


You can unlock a wooden sword, actually, and do a whole no kills run.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:08 pm        Reply with quote

Interstellar Dinghy wrote:
Grant Dempsey wrote:
So MGR's got its own form of non-lethal play after all.


You can unlock a wooden sword, actually, and do a whole no kills run.

Also Metal Gear: the videogamey idea that "anything that does damage but is not X weapon is non lethal." This isn't exclusively Metal Gear, but it's a videogame distinction between what's lethal and what's non-lethal that the series has made a centerpiece since MGS2.

Surely no one will die if you pierce their skull with horse tranquilizers! Only bullets kill.

Surely getting beaten with a wooden sword will leave you in a basically OK state! We only die from slicing in these here parts.

Though I guess if you're a cyborg the latter point might actually be correct as long as there's no direct head trauma.
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Adilegian
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm        Reply with quote

Looking forward to the never-to-be made game, Metal Gear AC!D Rising, featuring the terrifying war machine, Metal Gear Omeprazole.
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Schwere Viper



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:56 pm        Reply with quote

Just finished this three hours ago. End game clock was 4hrs, 11mins. I got pretty shitty grades, though.

Just playing the game is a sheer pleasure. Thinking about it right now I can't think of a single point where I wasn't enjoying myself (okay maybe the drunk, stumbly "oh god i'm actually killing people ;_;" bit just before Quinton Flynn wrecks his vocal chords). The final boss' rant was incredible, and I was quite taken with the new Metal Gear's appearance even though it was a pretty run-of-the-mill fight. The fact that the true final boss is basically NANOMACHINES is just amazing.

This is one of Platinum's best games. A "Metal Gear Gaiden" with an action game heart. I'll be playing this again.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:11 pm        Reply with quote

Schwere Viper wrote:
This is one of Platinum's best games. A "Metal Gear Gaiden" with an action game heart. I'll be playing this again.

I wonder how much of the good feel of this game came from Platinum's need to appease fans who had become attached to concepts from the first Metal Gear Solid: Rising trailers. Stealth and sneaking isn't one of their typical design modes. As far as I understand the design staff, Revengeance put them a bit outside of their comfort zone, much as the action game format put Metal Gear out of its.
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Schwere Viper



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:34 pm        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
Schwere Viper wrote:
This is one of Platinum's best games. A "Metal Gear Gaiden" with an action game heart. I'll be playing this again.

I wonder how much of the good feel of this game came from Platinum's need to appease fans who had become attached to concepts from the first Metal Gear Solid: Rising trailers. Stealth and sneaking isn't one of their typical design modes. As far as I understand the design staff, Revengeance put them a bit outside of their comfort zone, much as the action game format put Metal Gear out of its.


The stealth most definitely takes a back seat here, but I was surprised at how many situations there are in the game where you can stealth kill every enemy in an area! It's a more simplistic stealth system than we've seen in mainline Metal Gear games, but it's still quite dynamic and adds more options in play, which I'm all for.
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Moogs



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:36 pm        Reply with quote

Some people are like "they shouldn't have called this Metal Gear."

I punched them all in the face.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:45 pm        Reply with quote

Moogs wrote:
Some people are like "they shouldn't have called this Metal Gear."

I punched them all in the face.

Zandatsu their brains Moog.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:47 pm        Reply with quote

Ran after a civilian that I saved before he could exit the map and hit him with my sword. Good juvenile Metal Gear humor.
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TXTSWORD



Joined: 25 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:42 pm        Reply with quote

So is no one out off by the extremely invasive story elements, interactive cutscene battles, and extreme brevity? I mean - the gameplay being extremely satisfying definitely saves it but yeah j/w. I kind of wish they'd have thrown something in that would tie into the proper series canon more than just this side story. It stuck pretty exclusively to its isolated content. Though, I think with the writing of rising I'd be a little afraid.

Just did a full playthrough on hard last night and started a wooden sword playthrough but hey is there anything to gain by going non lethal other than a Cheever? I'd have liked for there to be some unlocks for non lethaling bosses.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:03 pm        Reply with quote

TXTSWORD wrote:
I kind of wish they'd have thrown something in that would tie into the proper series canon more than just this side story. It stuck pretty exclusively to its isolated content.

The narrative does dwell on Solidus, the Patriots, and what Big Boss and Zero's war did to the world in general quite a bit, though, even if it doesn't always pull such associations out of the background and make them as dramatically explicit as it could.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Q*Bert Killscreen Nightmare

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:36 am        Reply with quote

TXTSWORD wrote:
Just did a full playthrough on hard last night and started a wooden sword playthrough but hey is there anything to gain by going non lethal other than a Cheever? I'd have liked for there to be some unlocks for non lethaling bosses.

WARRIOR PRIDE

I'm into the second chapter on my way through Hard Mode. Have yet to unlock the wooden sword. It looks like the different cyborg bodies that Raiden can wear carry different attributes, particularly the ones that you unlock from the VR Missions and even the DLC MGS4 Raiden whose body is described as an outdated liability, which I assume means it takes more damage.
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