As far as I can recall for MGS4 they had this new theme that sounded kind of like the old MGS theme, but wasn't, and basically pretended like it was the same theme they'd always used, and that's the one that gets played at the end of the (overlong, infuriating) final Ocelot oldguy fistfight.
Yeah, they basically took the root notes from the identifying hook and used it as a "jingle" to recall the old melody; which by coincidence was extremely similar to a work from a dead composer (I think he was russian or Danish or something). It wasn't clear to me that they were trying to sue for infringement, I think they just came to an agreement to respect the composer's work and no longer use that melody.
My understanding about what happened to the original MGS theme is that it was discovered to be suspiciously similar (like, similar enough to constitute plagiarism) to a piece by a Soviet composer, and while there was never actually any legal action Konami got spooked and put the kibosh on any further use of the theme in the series.
there used to be a video on Youtube of Kojima listening to the Russian song (looking completely surprised), along with some presumably Russian people. I couldn't find the video, though. and a n old link to it says its been taken down.
Here's a pretty comprehensive comparison (done by someone else) for those who didn't know about this:
ok so there is a gameplay video and like the ishmael guy is like WE GOTS TO GO DAWG I BEEN PROTECTING YOU but then you are just crawling on the ground and he keeps running forward and then waiting for you to crawl to him
video game logic
I DON'T KNOW MAYBE THIS ISHMAEL GUY WOULD, LIKE, PICK SNAKE UP AND HELP HIM WALK? LIKE A HUMAN BEING WOULD DO?
though I am sure this will be rationalized because Ishmael is actually a psychic projection of snake whose mind is being influenced by the teenage psycho mantis to blah blah blah
or maybe because he'se covered in bandages and is clearly seen holding his right shoulder as if its weak and/or hurting.
I would assume that "V" is a reference to big boss being referred to as Vic boss, Vic voss, at the end if peacewalker.
Man diamond dogs horned big boss is just the coolest damned thing.
I want to believe that if there are two big bosses in this game, that one would be solidus instea of a secret millionth clone that wedonttalkabout, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they just threw that in.
I agree with you, adilegian, about peacewalker's plot. When playing through it I was like "wait didn't we already cover all this in 3?" And feeling frustrated by then acting like big boss is confronting these feelings for the first time. That aside, I liked the Cold War deterrence stuff, the mother base stuff, all of the characters, the aesthetic/world/mecha, and most of all the gameplay sooooo!
Also it was nice context for master miller's character.
(12:20:25 AM) schwereviper: I actually thought it was another joke when I was watching it
(12:21:12 AM) schwereviper: because it looks like some kind of half-psychological thriller, half-'60s drug adventure
(12:22:18 AM) chaosgoeshere: You know, I am actually okay with this
(12:22:31 AM) chaosgoeshere: I'm just really confused at why the series is still called MGS
(12:22:37 AM) chaosgoeshere: Might as well just call it MG Boss
(12:23:10 AM) schwereviper: I believe the plan was to lead MGS3 storyline into MG1 and make something resembling a series canon
(12:23:22 AM) schwereviper: but then they just kept making Big Boss games
(12:23:28 AM) chaosgoeshere: Well it would make sense re: Mother Base fucking exploding
(12:23:47 AM) chaosgoeshere: and the flaming fucking animals are like, what, protoss hallu
(12:23:56 AM) schwereviper: and it got harder and harder for them to actually fit all this crazy horseshit into the storyline of a fucking MSX game
(12:24:22 AM) chaosgoeshere: oh dear
(12:24:27 AM) chaosgoeshere: are you really buttmad
(12:24:41 AM) schwereviper: They're going to end up remaking MG1 and MG2 out of necessity you know
(12:25:00 AM) chaosgoeshere: The thing is
(12:25:09 AM) chaosgoeshere: MGS has become Konami's Final Fantasy
(12:25:19 AM) chaosgoeshere: if even one game in the series sells below expectations
(12:25:25 AM) schwereviper: just to shoehorn all this extra crap like Frank Jaeger being a cyborg ninja before he was Snake's bestest FOXHOUND buddy before he was a cyborg ninja
(12:25:31 AM) chaosgoeshere: Konami are going to have to start making games by candlelight
(12:25:58 AM) schwereviper: and Dr. Clark who made him a cyborg ninja again was the ditsy medical staff for Big Boss on his first big solo mission
(12:26:03 AM) chaosgoeshere: They're just going to keep shoving more and more retcons in there
(12:26:33 AM) schwereviper: and Major Zero was the mastermind behind a plot for a global hegemony fueled by a war economy
(12:26:48 AM) chaosgoeshere: they could have avoided this all by MAKING A GAME IN THE FUCKING FUTURE
(12:26:56 AM) chaosgoeshere: imagine it
(12:27:07 AM) chaosgoeshere: some new form of patriots system is consolidating everything
(12:27:09 AM) schwereviper: and over ten other characters who probably fit into it in some kind of bullshit way they've yet to come up with
(12:27:09 AM) chaosgoeshere: the amero is in use
(12:27:27 AM) schwereviper: YOU KNOW WHAT COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS
(12:27:29 AM) chaosgoeshere: world is divided into new world order zone 1 europe zone 2 united america zone 3 china
(12:27:37 AM) chaosgoeshere: there is no hope left
(12:27:44 AM) schwereviper: JUST MAKING A GAME THAT WASN'T CALLED METAL GEAR SOLID AND CALLING IT AN ALTERNATE STORYLINE
(12:27:47 AM) chaosgoeshere: a bunch of rebels steal a gene sample
(12:27:54 AM) chaosgoeshere: it's fucking snake
(12:28:13 AM) chaosgoeshere: they name the clone Perfect Snake
(12:28:22 AM) chaosgoeshere: and give him the mission of taking this down
(12:28:32 AM) chaosgoeshere: shutting down the patriots future
(12:28:39 AM) schwereviper: and it would be Konami's Devil May Cry, yeah
(12:28:39 AM) chaosgoeshere: he is assisted by an AI based off of sunny
(12:28:44 AM) schwereviper: I see what you're doing
(12:28:53 AM) chaosgoeshere: I WOULD BE COMPLETELY COOL WITH THIS
(12:29:33 AM) chaosgoeshere: the metal gear would be an orbital sat
(12:29:38 AM) schwereviper: I JUST WANTED METAL GEAR TO BE A CARICATURE OF '80s ACTION FLICKS AGAIN ;_;
(12:29:43 AM) chaosgoeshere: with a pinpoint "rods from god" system capable of marking hives of dissent from orbit
(12:29:47 AM) schwereviper: WITH GIANT ROBOTS
(12:30:02 AM) chaosgoeshere: and fucking hitting them with bunker busting shit
(12:30:08 AM) schwereviper: FUCKING PLAY METAL GEAR 2 IT'S NAVY FUCKING SEALS WITH A GIANT ROBOT
(12:30:09 AM) schwereviper: FUCKING
(12:30:15 AM) chaosgoeshere: the finale has perfect snake fire himself from a downright ancient REX railgun into space
(12:30:57 AM) chaosgoeshere: for a zero-gravity fistfight where he and his nemesis, who is implied to be some clone of raiden, are attached to the satellite on gravity boots
(12:31:04 AM) chaosgoeshere: THERE
(12:31:05 AM) chaosgoeshere: DONE
(12:31:09 AM) chaosgoeshere: METAL GEAR FUTURE
(12:31:26 AM) chaosgoeshere: bosses based after different world powers
(12:31:46 AM) chaosgoeshere: the american dude is a cowboy or a anachronistic civil war confederate general
(12:31:57 AM) chaosgoeshere: the european dude is a napoleon pastiche with a lightsaber rapier
(12:32:03 AM) schwereviper: so G-Gundam for Metal Gear
(12:32:05 AM) chaosgoeshere: chinese dude is a tank
(12:32:21 AM) chaosgoeshere: an actual tank
(12:32:21 AM) chaosgoeshere: one of his attacks has him shoot entire humvees at you
(12:32:28 AM) chaosgoeshere: painted with the chinese flag
(12:32:28 AM) schwereviper: actually G-Gundam for Metal Gear could work
(12:32:36 AM) chaosgoeshere: METAL GEAR FUTURES
(12:32:42 AM) schwereviper: like after MGS1 when Ocelot sells the Metal Gear specs on the black market
(12:32:42 AM) chaosgoeshere: "The future is not set."
(12:32:55 AM) schwereviper: have every country settle their differences in a global tournament
(12:33:04 AM) schwereviper: WHO CAN MAKE THE TOUGHEST METAL GEAR
(12:33:19 AM) chaosgoeshere: "At the turn of the millenium a group of men activated a system and wrote the destiny of the entire world."
(12:33:30 AM) chaosgoeshere: "Here, today, WE MAKE THAT DREAM A REALITY!"
(12:33:42 AM) chaosgoeshere: "...here is another Snake, here to stop me."
(12:33:47 AM) chaosgoeshere: "Will you be the one to finally kill me?"
(12:34:05 AM) chaosgoeshere: "TOTAL. GLOBAL. SATUR-uhm-CONTROL!"
(12:34:14 AM) schwereviper: at this point I'm thinking you're treating this like a word doc
Big Boss becomes a badguy because of shrapnel in his head that damages his frontal lobe and his ability to tell right from wrong. After Snake kills him he's reconstituted from Solidus' and Liquid's parts minus the shrapnel so he's a nice guy again in the graveyard at the end. Except he doesn't seem to have shrapnel in his head on the operating table with Miller. Horns it is then. _________________
I"ll be clearer. It really bothers me that there is this nerd NEED to have everything connected. The developers also feel a need (a responsiblity?) for this. Instead of constructing a good story they are trying to fit it into this timeline puzzle. It was a reason that MGS4 was awful. While this game does look cool and I'm excited (especially since it is PS360???) I'm worried that it is going to be a bunch of stuff where I role my eyes.
I don't get why it's dumb to talk about speculation of minutia since it's the standard set by the game series itself. One should probably expect that folks on this particular forum who are pretty invested in this game series would be talking about the series in this way. To assume otherwise and call that activity dumb is pretty much being the rain on the parade, especially when you aren't saying anything about what you'd rather talk about.
Trying to connect canon from a developing art form is the dumbest thing.
Rei wrote:
God, this forum.
Fuck off.
Texican Rude wrote:
I"ll be clearer. It really bothers me that there is this nerd NEED to have everything connected. The developers also feel a need (a responsiblity?) for this. Instead of constructing a good story they are trying to fit it into this timeline puzzle. It was a reason that MGS4 was awful. While this game does look cool and I'm excited (especially since it is PS360???) I'm worried that it is going to be a bunch of stuff where I role my eyes.
People are just having fun with a thing they like. Complex canon is a kind of puzzle. Not interesting for you? Let it go, and leave other people alone. No, there is no legitimate excuse for barging into a room and telling everyone that the fun thing they are doing is the dumbest.
Don't try to make out like developers are constraining themselves. They are choosing to use characters like Big Boss and Psycho Mantis or whatever crazy cats wind up in this thing. They could tell a standalone story that doesn't involve the rest of the series chronology or use the supernatural stuff that seems to be going on to make whatever happens not real. Metal Gear fans would eat it up anyway because the identity of a Metal Gear game is more than just the mythology—even if that aspect were necessary we all know that a hallucinated gaiden can speak to actual mythology in a franchise. You don't get to blame the developers' storytelling choices on the pathetic fans' disgusting need for CANON.
Also, all three of these things are absolutely right:
smartblue wrote:
I don't get why it's dumb to talk about speculation of minutia since it's the standard set by the game series itself.
Rei wrote:
People have used their knowledge of canon and otherwise to predict things about MGS games years before release. It's part of the game.
Interstellar Dinghy wrote:
I don't think wanting a story to be coherent is a "nerd need".
So don't be so damned judgmental about folks here nerding out over the Metal Gear storyline. That's half the fun. If you don't get into that, too bad.
It really sucks having to tell anyone older than 12 that just because you don't like something doesn't mean you get to be a dick about it.
of course, if most of the people here ran into people doing this about Final Fantasy, they would chortle, call them all nerd idiots, and then go back to, I dunno, listening to they might be giants
criticism is a valid mode of thought, if I think the overt and inbred canonization of metal gear is dumb beyond reproach, then I am pretty entitled to demonstrate how it makes these things ridiculous. that metal gear solid 4 happens to exist is pretty powerful evidence that I'm, you know, right. saying everything is valid and lets all bake cakes and roll around in flower beds is a good way to get dumb and stay there.
Criticism itself comes in a wide variety of modes too You can be constructive and polite about... calling a thing that other people are talking about, dumb, somehow, maybe. You can be a harassing aggressor, which well, yeah. It doesn't give the impression that you have a lot of respect for not only the material you're criticizing, but the people who are talking about it as well. I don't know about others, but a tone full of arrogance and hubris just doesn't engage me.
thestage wrote:
of course, if most of the people here ran into people doing this about Final Fantasy, they would chortle, call them all nerd idiots, and then go back to, I dunno, listening to they might be giants
Like the people talking about Final Fantasy in the Bioshock thread right now, amirite?
Last edited by smartblue on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
of course, if most of the people here ran into people doing this about Final Fantasy, they would chortle, call them all nerd idiots, and then go back to, I dunno, listening to they might be giants
Except there's threads about final fantasy on here all the time and nobody is calling anybody else an idiot in them. _________________
of course, if most of the people here ran into people doing this about Final Fantasy, they would chortle, call them all nerd idiots, and then go back to, I dunno, listening to they might be giants
criticism is a valid mode of thought, if I think the overt and inbred canonization of metal gear is dumb beyond reproach, then I am pretty entitled to demonstrate how it makes these things ridiculous. that metal gear solid 4 happens to exist is pretty powerful evidence that I'm, you know, right. saying everything is valid and lets all bake cakes and roll around in flower beds is a good way to get dumb and stay there.
MGS4 is crappy not because of its relationship with prior canon but because it is very poorly written and full of stilted, weirdly paced melodrama.
And Final Fantasy games aren't all connected, asshole. But seriously I'm sure in your weird hypothetical situation our Metal Gear nerds would try to point out why Final Fantasy is less rewarding to nerd about. Which is perfectly legitimate.
If either you or Rudie had actually said anything that stood as criticism of the canonization of Metal Gear (or anything specific about how exactly this one thing is the root of MGS4's problems), then this would be a conversation, but you both seem to be more interested in lazy condescension.
Last edited by internisus on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
MGS4 is crappy not because of its relationship with prior canon but because it is very poorly written and full of stilted, weirdly paced melodrama.
unlike the other metal gear games, amirite.
MGS4 is a disaster piece because it felt the need to legitimize MGS2 to fans by reconciling every second of it with a Bigger Picture that happens to include, at length, All Their Favorite Things. this happens to every nerd property once 1) it makes enough money, and 2) its fanbase becomes old enough to be broken. it's a hundred million dollar piece of fan fiction cybernetically engineered to make the people who were going to love it love it even more
Last edited by thestage on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
no one is talking about final fantasy in the bioshock thread.
uh yeah they are
i mean don't ask me why, but yeah they are
I don't want to be mean, but you need to learn how to read. the conversation is not about final fantasy (you'll note metal gear was also mentioned), it is about the way the video game press/"community" relates to narrative-based games that stretch beyond their means, in an attempt to figure out just why the bioshock games became the singular exemplars that they, for some reasons, happen to be. this is an actual topic, it ain't got shit to do with canon or whatever the fuck.
of course, if most of the people here ran into people doing this about Final Fantasy, they would chortle, call them all nerd idiots, and then go back to, I dunno, listening to they might be giants
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
