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Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:32 pm        Reply with quote

MGS is finally going full-on into immersion culture. Whatever this game's equivalent to Mother Base is, you'll be able to access it, customize it, probably set little weapons development projects in motion, etc., on mobile devices, so that you can get your GZ fix even on the rare occasion that you've acted on the crazy thought of getting some fresh air.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:34 pm        Reply with quote

I doubt that it's going to be an "important" part of the game experience, or at least that it'll be more important than MPO's "Find recruitment hotspots!" feature. It's probably just going to be a way of letting you micromanage your arsenal and your troops the same way you'll be able to in the game itself, in a special little Mother Base app. And maybe they'll throw in a cute mobile-specific minigame mode, so you can take some of your non-Snake guys through five to ten minute stages, or something.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:29 pm        Reply with quote

I hear there's some kind of base building feature!
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:39 am        Reply with quote

It's got to be clear enough that being MGS is what really makes the prospect of an MGO interesting. I mean, yeah, American players turned it into M4-headshot-mania: The Game, but like elvis said just a little bit above me here, they were sort of hijacking the game in turning it into that, not just letting the game arise in its own form. And what I think is interesting on top of that: my impression is that most of the American, M4-crazy players nevertheless understood that they weren't playing, say, Call of Duty and even chose to play MGO, instead of Call of Duty, largely because of that, because it was different, because it wasn't "supposed" to be a typical online shooter game. I suppose my point being, I think the problem of American players wasn't that they wanted MGO to be something other than it was; I think their problem was that they wanted it to be pretty much what it was, but they just didn't/couldn't figure out how to engage it as such, so every time, without fail, they'd play the game in that one way they could: runnin'-'n-gunnin'. And their really annoying seriousness about it all wasn't simply a passioned insistence on making sure the game was M4 Adventures, but a whole other gaming-cultural issue altogether (our general American preference for kinds of atomistic individualism, our social obsession with using games--not just video games--as a way to prove ourselves against others including teammates, etc.).

I don't think even American developers would boil MGO down to something all about headshots. I think American developers would be very self-conscious about being faithful to the MGS identity. If anything, they'd just bring more rigor into the system design that might make an MGO that isn't just quirky, but highly functional in its quirkiness.

Or American players really are just terrible souls and American developers are the devils on their shoulders, and that's that. I dunno.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:33 am        Reply with quote

Levi wrote:
That game also established that Big Boss doesn't watch movies ):

He sure promised to watch a lot of 'em, though!

That Big Boss never followed through on those promises is surely why Para-Medic became so bitter as a Patriot.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:53 am        Reply with quote

parker wrote:
Hell it almost does sound like Kiefer doing both voices.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:36 am        Reply with quote

Whoa, Big Boss has a horn in the last scene of the trailer.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:44 am        Reply with quote

Wait, never mind, sorry, my video quality was bad.

Heh, for a second, I thought something really strange was up. Big Boss with a horn would've been quite a thing.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:15 am        Reply with quote

Toptube wrote:
Its a horn.

No way.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:36 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
I generally don't take statements about MGS4's badness as qualified enough to be anything more than preferential justification. Preferential justification interests me a whole lot less than having something to say about the game.

Aaand it's for exactly that reason that I don't feel obligated to justify my saying things about the game with some sort of defensive articulation of the game's worthiness of engagement. Every engagement of a thing is already its own argument for engagement of the thing in general, so every engagement should stand on its own merits as such, not be forcibly predicated on whether or not the object of engagement has earned some right to be engaged, as if the object's earning anything could be more than very weakly decided in advance.

Honestly, I don't find the "but, but, lol @ MGS4, right, everyone???" position/attitude/whatever compelling enough to think there's much to it that I should address head-on prior to addressing the game itself.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:57 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
Adilegian wrote:
variety of playstyle


i.e. do whatever you want forever with no consequences. which is, yeah, pretty MGS in its own way, but strongly favors only the latter of the two major design goals of 1.) Be a Stealth Game 2.) Be a Playground

How 'bout "Be a Stealth Playground"?

Do we need to make a strong distinction of design goals like that? We've already talked about this, you and me, and we'll probably talk about this again numerous times, which is good, because I'm pretty low on energy at the moment, but: positing that 1 and that 2 so as to say that aspects of the game favor one against the other, and then stopping at that statement, doesn't seem to me to be in keeping with the spirit of the series' design. I mean, there's a tension between that 1 and that 2, just insofar as they're fuzzy subspirits (or whatever) of the design, of course, but I feel like that tension tends to be what MGS tries to cultivate, not what it fucks up by allowing.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:13 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
the game's attempts at pretending Snake ever has to really worry about getting seen

do i really have to post much tonight, dammit
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:22 am        Reply with quote

it's no good!

i can't do it!!!
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:31 am        Reply with quote

adi's heading in a direction kinda-sorta-but-maybe-not-quite like the direction i want to go, and i'm not sure whether this should motivate me to post or to feel like i don't quite have to

in other words: could you be the one to finally finish me

i don't even know who you is anymore
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:50 am        Reply with quote

Basically, I think MGS4 (which I say rather than "MGS" because I think it is especially the case in MGS4, even though I am also inclined to think it's the case in general) purposely constructs an experience of "consequences for Snake's getting seen" that aren't exactly based in a pushing-through-resistance model of gameplay, and to assess that experience according to that model, then, is just to orient oneself insistently towards the game as though it were something it isn't (even trying to be).

Not that pushing-through-resistance isn't part of what it tries to offer as an experiential possibility. But pushing-through-resistance isn't The Experience it tries to offer; it's only part of that. And it is highlighted in particular moments, as moments (like the Act 5 opening). But it is an experience maybe directly opposed to other experiences the game tries to offer (like in Act 2), and the game needs some relative freedom from that model in order to offer those other experiences.

The game shifts emphasis from itself, as offering resistance to player progress, onto the agency of the player, becoming a space in which that can play itself out. The player's navigation, even negotiation, of options in the mechanics and certain psychological pressures inherited into the gameplay through the gameplay's contamination by the terms of the narrative, is in the spotlight, rather than the player's cunning problem-solving (and/or risk-taking) with respect to sentries who need to/should be avoided if success is to be achieved. So you get a stealth playground, and it's a stealth playground for a reason, not a stealth game, if that means something only ever to be assessed primarily in terms of Snake vs. sentries, as opposed to Snake vs. Snake. What Adi's saying about something that very much opens itself up to "What if...?" exploration is part of this.

What an awful post. That's all I'm doing right now.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:55 am        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
i don't think idle novelty supercedes action-vs-consequence, especially in a game using stealth as its premise both thematically and mechanically. i mostly just want the games to be doing both at the same time as much as possible.

But what if sort of divorcing action and consequence, and opening up action as something to explore in itself (more meaningfully than the phrase "idle novelty" allows), is actually the point itself, thematically and mechanically both, not just a big ol' oops in both fields
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:09 pm        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
i think i value what you value in mgs3/mgs4's act 2 but am not satisfied with just leaving it alone as such. my issue isn't with what mgs3 "allows", it's with what it doesn't even consider. i don't want to stifle intuitive mechanical exploration; i want to introduce more elements that strengthen the context for its use.

But I think what Adi and I are trying to say is that what we value in MGS3/Act 2 is possible largely because mechanical exploration isn't pinned down by contextual necessity (or, if we don't want to put it so strongly as "necessity," contextual demand). The experiences just aren't two that you can have at the same time: oooh what does this button/tool do vs. damn which buttons/tools are best for this pressing circumstance. To imply that you can is more or less to give us all an out that lets us linger in the phase of discussion most of us have been content not to move forward from for years now: "MGS isn't the latter, and isn't that just too bad for it." We do have to kind of push, I think, just to get the discussion forward through that phase towards absorption of the perspective that embraces the former of those two experiences as legitimate in itself.

I agree with you that it's probably "too convenient" to talk about what the games are "trying to do" and not. I think it's a problem of the critical vocabulary, whether because great tools just haven't become available to us quite yet or because they don't come naturally to us yet. I think MGS is unique for the ways in which it "expects," rather than demands, things of the player and often lets the player loose into that realm of expectation such that in the end it offers a totally legitimate (fun and meaningful) gaming experience which nonetheless doesn't look like some concepts of what a game should be. I can make the argument that "trying to do" is appropriate to say, especially because I'd want to make clear that I understand this way of thinking about and playing the games as more like "being in tune with them" (being aware of and then acted on by the games' "expectations") than hijacking them for my own experiential goals. But also, yeah, intentionality is just a convenient, quick-to-mind model for articulating that difference between something-like-expectation and something-like-demand in the works' operations. We can argue about the appropriateness or effectiveness of that model, but I also think we'll probably end up spinning our wheels for a while, if the force of the conversation is just judgmentally towards assessing the model so as to say "eh, okay, fine" or "nah," and not productively towards developing (a better) one to improve articulations of the kind of perspective Adi and I are trying to have included and recognized in discussion.

But there's plenty on the other side that I find "too convenient" too. It's one thing, for example, to say flatly that the oooh what does this button do and damn which button is best for this circumstance experiences are two that the games could/should offer simultaneously; it's another thing to start digging into that assertion and figure out the extents to which that's really been possible, if we do so with an awareness of the technological and conceptual limitations grounded in consideration of the possibility that MGS is already legitimate as/for what it is. So, maybe MGSV will finally achieve such a Stealth Playground that those two experiences are made one. But we should probably orient ourselves towards that as an achievement, right? Not just as the rectification of a mistake, since that necessitates a particular, restrictive orientation towards the rest of the series in the meantime. As Adi and I are saying, oooh what does this button do is a legitimate experience in itself, which can be mechanically expressed and thematically encoded in an interactive work in all sorts of ways, and not just an inferior one. And so MGS isn't bad for having been about that for long stretches of its run, even if it does mean there's been a gap between the MGS that is and the MGS some of us would prefer per our own creative/fun-seeking inclinations, through those stretches.

I mean, I fully appreciate the "I want" in this situation. And I appreciate your indeed putting it in those terms, if only so that I could have the opportunity to say that's not what I mean to trample on. I think it's difficult much of the time to prevent the cross-contamination of "I really want an MGS that..."s and "I blame MGS for not..."s. One doesn't actually require the other. But the former is well worth talking about. I know people here don't know much about me yet, but, I do tend to push the "I want an MGS that..."s a lot too. So I hope my position isn't taken as "shut up, eat what's on your plate, and love it just as much even if it were all you could ever have for the rest of your life."

Anyway, analogos, much of this, we already talked about last night, but... for the thread's sake (or something)!


Last edited by Grant Dempsey on Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:52 pm        Reply with quote

analogos wrote:
parker wrote:
I think it's shrapnel sticking out of Big Boss' head


i guess you were right sort of maybe

"As an old game designer, I'm looking at my creations and wondering, 'Hey, are you dead?' But, I'm still there."

"'Hey, are you dead?' But, I'm still there."

"'Hey, are you dead?'"
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:59 am        Reply with quote

Toups wrote:
did everyone forget that today is april 1??

Yeah, but this isn't the first time Hayter's talked about this. And Kojima talked about it too, several days ago. And Kiefer's already got Hayter's part, at least in the trailer. And a tweet by Hayter seems a strangely low-key climax for a relatively long-term April Fools' joke that Kojima Productions has to be in on too. And.........!
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:35 am        Reply with quote

parker wrote:
Kiefer was voicing the bandaged dude. Big Boss only says like two words and it's hard to hear who it might be.

I honestly can't not hear Kiefer when I hear Big Boss speak in this trailer, though. I know it's just a few lines, but Kiefer's voice is nearly as distinct as Hayter's Snake-voice, and damn if the whispered "What happened to the woman?" doesn't sound exactly like a wounded/exhausted Jack Bauer to my ears.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:13 pm        Reply with quote

Dark Age Iron Savior wrote:
I know this is a dumb question, but has Kojima or someone similar stated that, in the plot dump during the after-end of MGS4, Big Boss is definitely not lying about anything?

(not that such matters can't be retconned at later dates, of course)

Would it matter if he did even if there weren't ever an explicit in-world retcon?

Let the authorial intent debate ensue.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:26 am        Reply with quote

To be honest, I'm less interested in Knowing whether Big Boss isn't or may be lying and more interested in seeing what interpretation somebody might generate that's predicated on the assumption of Big Boss's lying. In other words: DAIS, what makes you ask that question?

It honestly isn't a question that occurred to me to ask of the narrative. I do think it's tremendously important to keep always in mind that what Big Boss offers is an account, rooted in a perspective, and not the truth. I do think it's tremendously important that Zero is disempowered in precisely such a way that he's not only never allowed to speak for himself, but also the only primary MGS antagonist disallowed to speak for himself (i.e., the only primary antagonist who has no this-is-why-I've-done-all-this monologue). And the characters who inform us about Zero all obviously have non-objective reason and inclination to make either a world-dooming monster or a sad failure out of Zero in their telling. MGS4 wants us to know we're missing something.

But yeah, it hasn't occurred to me before to wonder what it could mean if Big Boss were deliberately misrepresenting anything to Snake(/the player).
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 10:32 pm        Reply with quote

The OnigawaraV thing outed itself as a fake, by the way.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 8:37 am        Reply with quote

Aaand here's a glimpse of the next trailer: Not for the Future

Kojima also says, "Trailers these days has lots of explosion, crash, destruction, and fall. I intentionally avoid those elements in my next trailer."

I don't know about the rest of you, but boy am I gonna miss Explosion, Crash, Destruction, and Fall. They're my kind of people.

I imagine this means we're looking at a dialogue-heavy trailer, which means in turn that maybe we do have a good chance of finding out in this next one what's up with Big Boss's voice.

Not for the Future is an interesting line to tease us with. One of the things I find most interesting about MGSV so far is its bizarre position in the series' chronology, not just with respect to the narrative timeline, but the series' progression as a series as well. It's the Fresh Start for MGS, but it's apparently an interquel; it's coming out of Ground Zeroes, but it's Not for the Future; Big Boss is different enough to be recast (if that's what's up), but the game as it's been presented to us so far is largely about his being haunted by his other games (if Mr. Whale-song Fire Ogre really is the Mantis-induced Volgin-ghost vision he/it seems to be); etc.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:03 am        Reply with quote

Bape Escape wrote:
I'm Not for the Future Stealth Espionage Action.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:12 am        Reply with quote

That sounds vaguely like the Terminator theme to me.

On June 6th, we'll Know.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 4:33 pm        Reply with quote

Oh, cool, now Kojima says there's going to be a lot of gameplay footage in this upcoming trailer. We'll get the answer to the voice problem, and we'll get a good taste of the game as a game. I guess I was prepared for more teehee what do you think THIS could beee material.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:10 pm        Reply with quote

Bape Escape wrote:
I'd be happy just seeing how this phone-a-chopper infil/exfil mechanic works. if GZ's is supposed to be more open than previous games can you really call the cavalry in *anywhere*? kind of defeats the purpose of stealthing it if chopper backup is always available...

Well, it's not exactly "chopper backup," is it? My impression's been that it's the way you abort missions, instead of just bringing up a menu and selecting an Abort Mission option. If you call the chopper, it's because you want out of the mission without dying, not because you want to push-X-to-make-everyone-dead.

It's pretty cool, if that impression's right. It means that there's no such thing as an easy out, and no such thing as easy farming by starting-and-aborting past missions that contain pickups that are convenient for you in your latest mission and scenarios like that. Even quitting a mission and going back to, I dunno, Mission Select or whatever, is something you've sort of got to strategize and accomplish: enemies can shoot down the chopper while it's flying in or while it's lifting off with you in it, enemies will converge on your position once the chopper makes it obvious to them and start shooting your way even before you can step up into the chopper, etc. Something like going back to Mission 2 to pick up some Rations is still a mini-adventure you'll have to earn your way through each phase of including the retreat.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 1:41 am        Reply with quote

I mean, it's also cool, because it means that aborting a mission actually has to be played out as a retreat. It's not like PW, where you can just Fulton anybody anywhere, even indoors. To be picked up by the chopper, you have to call it in and move somewhere it can actually land because that's where it's going to be, rather than conveniently where you're already standing. Like, the GZ Camp Omega mission: the chopper's not going to land in the middle of the camp for you. You still have to get back out of the camp yourself to meet the chopper. So in general if you're indoors or in any tight space at all, well, tough shit: go outside, get to a clearing/helipad/whatever, if you want out of the current mission, or at least if you want out of it and you want to keep anything that you might've already picked up in it or whatever.

I like the thought of actually having supply raid missions or something: get in, get stuff, get out, get evac. As Diamond Dogs'(/the player's) way of maintaining supplies in general. MGSV's equivalent to the Drebin system.

I mean, I'm just making this up, but.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:48 pm        Reply with quote

internisus wrote:
I love Kiefer, and I love his voice, but I still don't understand the thinking behind this change.

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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:24 am        Reply with quote

parker wrote:
Doesn't the phone call at the end just say Solid was actually the one with the recessive traits and was therefore supposed to be inferior according to the game's wonky understanding of genetics.

No. Solid's just identified as "the inferior one." There's no sustained explicit association of recessive and inferior. If we take that twist to mean "Solid's actually the recessive clone," it's because we bring that association forward. I tend to think it's the fan community, and never the game itself, that sustains this non-incidental association of recessive and inferior. Liquid never says that their being recessive is why his genes are inferior to Solid's. That's a sort of muddled reading, I think. He only says the recessive genes are inferior (correlation, not causation), and of course he means per the goals of the cloning project, rather than Facts Of Nature.

I'm no expert on genetics, so I don't really care to, and can't, defend MGS1's genetics broadly. But yeah, for a long time it's seemed to me that the game isn't actually to blame for the "Kojima thinks recessive is just synonymous with inferior" reading, in particular. The game's respondents are.
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Grant Dempsey
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:52 am        Reply with quote

Also,

Adilegian wrote:
Looking at this again after the fact, the Snake change over seems mainly to do with production values. I have a gut feeling that there's a prestige element involved, though, since Kojima's directorial career has always been to find some way of aligning his with in videogames with the work that he might have done, in a parallel universe, were he a film director. Hayter's public claim to fame is Snake. While his work definitely helped make the series as acclaimed as it is, he's still primarily a videogame VA in terms of his most popular work. Moving on to Sutherland is a step up in prestige for Kojima's work, since the difference between videogame-VAs and television-actor-VAs is, in terms of class, the difference between musical theater and Broadway.

There are probably also a billion committees that have to approve the decision, but I can't imagine that a company as high-profile as Konami that's depending so much upon so few videogame franchises would skimp on putting as many selling-points onto the next installments of their titles as possible. It can probably be passed off, and not without flattering Kojima's ambitions, as akin to changing out actors for the James Bond movies. What's different here is that there's no sense of "passing along the role," but not even giving Hayter the chance to audition. Putting it in terms like "we're taking a new direction" comes off as face-saving, but it's also certainly (I think) euphemistic for "we're upgrading."

I have a feeling that you are probably speaking to this point, so I'm meaning to springboard from and/or perhaps clarify these comments of yours more than to seem to disagree with or challenge them: I think it's important to understand that the decision to replace Hayter (with a more accomplished actor) seems primarily rooted in the new importance of facial as well as vocal performance. It isn't just a more or less superficial choice to increase prestige and maybe in the process end up with a slightly better vocal performance for the game's hero, but also a choice to seize MGSV as an opportunity to demonstrate as quickly as possible the particular aesthetic power of the FOX Engine to offer Sophisticated Performances through a new, much broader range of subtleties in facial expressiveness (made possible by Super Graphics). Sutherland isn't just a bigger name than Hayter, and it isn't just that he probably has more performative range than Hayter as a voice actor in particular either. It's that voice talent isn't the only concern now and voice talent is probably all that Hayter's capable of bringing to the role. There's an extent to which we should probably be thinking of this as an attempt to achieve a paradigmatic shift within the series, from "voice actors" to "actors," rather than as a simple replacement of one voice actor for another. The message is definitely "We're upgrading," but it's "We're upgrading to fuller performances," not just "We're upgrading to better vocal performances."

It's why I posted that little Guyver clip. I very much appreciate Hayter's vocal performance in general, but I can also very easily imagine that he's the kind of voice actor who winds up making a lot of weird faces while recording that voice. A scrunched up face in order to grumble a "No," for example. Perfectly fine when the voice is the only piece of the performance we'll have any access to anyway, but not fine as soon as "Snake voice at any cost" is done.
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Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:20 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
So, generally, I regard conversation about important details and themes as causal unless specified explicitly otherwise. I acknowledge that the phrasing is ambiguous, but I can't really give the benefit of the doubt here when it would be a kind of nuance I just don't see elsewhere.

I don't really think of it as giving Kojima the benefit of the doubt. I just don't agree that the game seems to push the association in that direction. It isn't trying to articulate in its anime-aesthetic way something like What It Means To Have Recessive Genes. It's trying to articulate in its anime-aesthetic way what it means to be pinned not only to one's biological identity, but also to particular interpretations of one's biology. It's: Liquid is biologically X, therefore he is conditioned to occupy identity Y because of the assignment of certain social values to being biologically X. (And: Liquid believes he is not biologically X, and it is important to be biologically X to thrive in the environment in which he's been forced to base and build his self-concept Y, therefore believing he is not biologically X is a peculiar problem for him.) Not just: Liquid is biologically X, therefore he is biologically X.

What's of interest is the way Liquid's been conditioned to understand himself and his brother as "inferior" and "superior" respectively, bearing the weight of the goals of the cloning project in his personal worldview and self-concept, not intrinsic and universal values Kojima may or may not (as I'm arguing, probably doesn't) believe and mean to lecture that genes are generally to be discussed in terms of.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:21 am        Reply with quote

Rei wrote:
The game is ambiguous on many issues that I've seen people deliberate over the years, and, honestly, I think it's because Kojima has an authorial hand similar to someone stamping their foot into the dirt at the bottom of a shallow puddle to muddy the water. The recessive-inferior argument could go on forever with no one making much ground as to whether it's causal or correlative, and we'd be left saying the game is too ambiguous to make a concrete conclusion. My point is you're saying it's a fault of the game's respondents for reading poor writing badly, and I can't agree with that.

The "Kojima just means recessive = inferior" reading is prevalent enough that even to arrive here at your conclusion is to make ground, I think. Better to maintain that the writing's poor, but acknowledge that Kojima hasn't clearly committed himself to one particular bizarre fantasy genetics, than always to insist on his commitment to that one particular bizarre fantasy genetics and never have much else to say. More interesting readings can come out of considering that "recessive = inferior" isn't his message, and if we're gonna talk about the game anyway, there might as well be some interest in more interesting readings.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:35 am        Reply with quote

Interstellar Dinghy wrote:
Quote:
More interesting readings can come out of considering that "recessive = inferior" isn't his message, and if we're gonna talk about the game anyway, there might as well be some interest in more interesting readings.


Uh what? Are you saying that you're going to assume something that's pretty clearly untrue given the dialogue that rei's posted just for the sake of having more interesting discussion?

That doesn't seem like a very productive thing to do.

I'm not sure what's so unambiguous.

"flawed, recessive" doesn't need to be read as a causal association. "flawed" in particular doesn't need to be taken as anything other than "undesirable [per the goal of Les Enfants Terribles]."

"to create a phenotype in which all of the dominant genes were expressed" is weird genetics (a bit less weird if you figure that what's meant is more specifically "dominant [soldier] genes," but still pretty darn weird), but it doesn't specifically demand to be read as asserting any intrinsic or universal association of dominant and superior.

Those are the only lines (that have been posted here) that touch on the association at all, so.

I think the "leftovers" angle is the weirdest part.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:21 pm        Reply with quote

"Among visitors saw the trailer, esp Yumi Kikuchi started sobbing right fr the start and cried too hard to get back to radio show for a while"

"I'll depict "Revengence" in MGSV but isn't "Vengeance" that ends once killed. I'll depict "Chain of Revengence" that lies b/w groups(race)."

"E3 used to be really big ten few years ago. The world biggest intense festival where all creators from the world gather once a year."

"There were fellows share common passion and there's positive future. I'm expecting this E3 will get back such hype."

Joys & Sorrows, brought to you by Hideo Kojima
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:37 pm        Reply with quote

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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


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Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:56 pm        Reply with quote

Just to have it here:



Either there's another trailer coming or those last minute edits Kojima tweeted about making the other night just happened to cut the very slides he'd tweeted previously as peeks at the game's E3 presentation. I don't see Not for the Future or Not for Love in this one.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:31 am        Reply with quote

I thought the same thing. I hear it's Troy Baker who's playing him.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:35 am        Reply with quote

Adilegian wrote:
Also holy shit Kaz @ 5:45 missing his calf and his right arm.

I think the implication is that he's blind too. He can't seem to see Snake; he doesn't make eye contact. Snake puts the shades on him as though out of respect, rather than as an "It's your good look, bro" gesture. The caption "A Visionary robbed of his Future" seems like wordplay to me.

He's a mess alright.
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Grant Dempsey
zangrantsu


Joined: 04 May 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:44 am        Reply with quote

I'm also inclined to take Eli as Liquid right off the bat. He looks to be the right age, and the caption "A Youth who Curses his Fate" suggests he's got the right disposition, to be Liquid. One thing that's cool about this is that it isn't just his relationship with Big Boss that would be of great interest at this point: it's his relationships with Kaz and Ocelot too, considering he goes on to murder Kaz so that he can impersonate Kaz in MGS1, and Ocelot eventually dies impersonating him in MGS4. Talk about three men with bound fates, huh.

Last edited by Grant Dempsey on Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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