arc sys third strike is not a good game, but freed is the best pirate boxer in a fighting game so I guess I will have to buy it again. _________________
I think mostly Battle Fantasia might have just confused people. It's a very simple, almost Super Turbo (or Alpha 2)-like game that suddenly gets a lot more anime when you land a parry (or activate certain Heat modes). For my part, I miss it simply cause I loved playing Freed. WELCOME TEMPEST!
I tried out SF5 at CEO (great tournament). Still a big fan of Bison's new style in this game but I dunno if I'm gonna play him simply because I'm so reliant on his old high walk speed. It will take a LOT of time for me to adjust to his new plant-your-feet style where you want to back away more than walk forward to adjust Bison's spacing because he can't walk in easily and throw blocking players anymore. (But in exchange, he's a better zoner than he's been since, like, Alpha 2, which I also played that weekend. Alpha 2 Bison would be nuts if, uh, Chun weren't in that game, lol.)
Main character I was personally feeling in SF5 was actually Cammy. Obviously I liked her walk speed, and I was at least a little familiar with basic Cammy architecture since I dabbled in her in so many games (CvS2, SFxT, a bit in Super Turbo, a tiny bit in SF4). She's still very basic but really fun in this game; being able to change directions with her Hooligan dive and slide are nuts from the right setup. New Hooligan motion is a lot easier but I'm still getting used to buffering it in blockstrings.
Her new b+HP is AMAZING. It's the same animation as her old close MP uppercut, but even better now since it's a fierce (more damage! more hit/blockstun!) and more importantly, you can perform it on demand at any range! It reaches really high, really fast, right above her head, and it STOMPS on people trying to jump in on you from disadvantage when you're not ready to Cannon Spike them. Not sure whether or not it's still plus on block, but I think it is simply cause it has shorter range than her new stand HP (her old close HP with a slight range buff). If you like aggressive footsies, she's a monster right now. _________________
Bison looks interesing in SF5 since you can switch pressure from zoning and closing in the gap when you hit V-Trigger to produce pressure. Closest analogue I can think of is Thunder in Bone-KI since they have the same V-Trigger/Instinct where dash teleports to get in your face. But since Thunder is a grappler, he needs to be closing that gap and creating pressure all match while Bison is like "It's Tuesday. Gonna chill in the corner here and send back your garbage till I build enough V-meter to go in again".
Granted, different gamespeeds and strats (I've played enough bone-KI to know that sitting on a life lead is a fools errand) but that's a curious playstyle to give Bison who was all about dat pressure before. _________________
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: The Planet Bookshelves
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:18 pm
Thanks for all the impressions on SF5 Ben Reed. I haven't looked at too much footage myself but I have liked what I've seen. It's interesting to see the reactions to it from people in my local FGC's facebook page, people who started with SF4. There seems to be a lot of dismay at Combofiend's comments about Capcom aiming to remove option selects; this is being seen as something that will remove skillful play from the game and force random guessing based on statistics. I've honestly never been a real big SF4 player but is this perspective common in newer players? I know SF4 has a lot of option selects, which these players must be used to, but the game is still driven by reads at lots of other levels.
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: The Planet Bookshelves
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:17 pm
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a way of entering commands such that the game will make you do one of two or more options depending on what your opponent does. The really basic one in SF4 is crouch teching (crouching = ducking, teching = escaping throws), where you press downback and throw (LP+LK) at the same time. When you are blocking someone's attacks you have to be vigilant about looking for when your opponent might quickly stop the block string and do a throw, but instead of trying to read your opponent correctly you can let the game do the work for you using the crouch tech option select. Hit downback + LP + LK every time you feel an attack is about to hit. If you opponent throws you the game will make you throw escape. If your opponent keeps doing their block string you'll block. If your opponent does something else you'll get a crouching light kick, possibly stopping your opponent's block string if they are late on their combo timing.
It is important to note that crouch teching isn't an ultimate defense- there are ways to punish it if you know your opponent is doing it at a particular moment. One chief way is a frame trap, where you leave a small enough gap in your blockstring such that your opponent starts doing a LK but your next attack hits your opponent before they finish doing the LK, causing a counter hit. But crouch teching still helps a lot in general play.
There are lots of these things for all of the characters moves as well, where your character will change what special move they do depending on whether your attacks hits or is blocked, or maybe depending on whether your opponent jumps or crouches, or other situations like that. The options selects people will use are obviously the ones where your character will do the more favorable option. These techniques severely drop the risk in certain situations while multiplying the reward.
As != and mauve noted it's a natural consequence of programming and it's not something that can be removed wholesale, but with vigilance I'd imagine a developer can try to keep them at somewhat limited if they so desired (at least more limited than SF4). I've felt that when there are too many option selects is detracts from the risk/reward of trying to read your opponent since you don't have to worry about being wrong as much.
A common option select that's been in basically every fighter ever is safe-jumping. That is, after putting the opponent in a state where they can't do anything, like knocking them down, you do a jumping attack with timing such that it will connect, but if they throw a DP the invincibility will prevent you from touching them, and you'll just land safely and block instead. _________________ twit
Option selects in themselves aren't problems, it's when the option selects become detrimental to the game that they become a problem. Even when they can be worked around -- which is often -- they can still do a lot of harm to the meta. I tend to prefer fewer/less powerful OSes because I happen to like that first or second layer of the guessing game, rather than the "I know you know this arcane trick which invalidates three of my normal options" game.
That, and my own laziness, is probably why I like shallow games like Dengeki Fighting Climax, actually. _________________ http://www.mdgeist.com/
It's interesting because I find nothing appealing or intriguing about this game at all. If they do introduce more characters I like from Alpha, I feel like it'll just do the opposite and repel me more.
I just don't like the art style much at all. _________________
To me it looks like there are a lot of interesting angles of attack.
I dig that they are so radically redesigning a bunch of the characters, but I guess that doesn't really mean much since I'm sure there will be dlc for te original looks. _________________
I was a fan of the gritty aesthetic as long as they kept the lighthearted character designs. But Ken in a black tunic is pretty off putting? I mean, even Gears of War got a little less gritty for this gen. _________________ interdimensional
I can't even be mad at Ken's dumb banana hair. The way he looks like he plays now, holy SHIT he looks fun. He has fucking c.MK xx run! For once in like 2 decades I actually wanna play Ken! (Well, I played him a bit in SFxT. But I wasn't terribly thrilled with him.)
To me, the aesthetic is what it is. Not perfectly in line with my preferences, but where these games are concerned to me, the experience of playing them competitively (or at least semi-competitively, trying to beat whatever cheeseball character my brother picked) is always my primary concern. The proof is always in the playing, and right now I'm still pretty bullish on the playing. Gonna buy into the beta for sure after Evo, hopefully the build there has Ken. If not I'll keep playing Cammy. _________________
Will a Capcom fighter ever actually look nice again
I still think that UMVC3 is a generally nice looking game, but that was 8ing and this is dimps and we appear to be stuck in street fighter only purgatory now. _________________
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Location: The otherwise central zone.
Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:15 pm
My thought was that he's looking more Akuma-like too.
He's just pulled his arms out of his regular red top and has it hanging down, right? And has a black t-shirt on? Anyway it seems like a pretty sensible move to change him a bit. I'm a little excited about it.
Ken's redesign (mechanically) is very goofy, but it makes a lot of sense. Helps deflect one of the biggest fan fears (well, non-Ken fans) about adding Ken to the roster -- that a character slot is "wasted" on what is basically a more aggressive variant of Ryu. Why not someone more interesting, one might wonder? Well, apparently that somebody, this time, is Ken. Who'da thunk?
Mechanically, he's not actually all that different from previous Kens except for a couple elements:
- Hurricane Kick knockdown/rising juggle-friendly arc (EX only? I'll have to go back and watch more carefully)
- New divekick special (an all-in, Sol-style divekick, where it's unsafe on block but you get a juggle or reset on hit)
- V-Trigger (obviously...Ken Install is a go)
- His fuckin' run (it merits an expletive)
The run as it is right now is definitely the craziest element of SF5 Ken. On paper, it sounds REALLY crazy ("he can cancel normals into run! He can cancel his run with normals! Oh my God, he's going full Fuerte!"), but from what I've seen so far, it looks to be only mildly crazy. Lemme break it down in terms of cases I've observed so far (from both reveal trailer and Combofiend casuals):
- His run appears to have enough startup that he couldn't lock people out of jumping by just doing c. MK xx run xx c. MK over and over again. And presumably, once you've input it, they force you to run for at least a few frames before you can cancel it with normals, specials, etc. So the likely ways out of that pattern are vertical jump or possibly a fast abare light attack a la Guilty Gear. The same escape scenarios apply to normal xx run xx throw, presumably. Ken could trap by doing a pattern like cMK xx run xx Shoryuken or c.HP, but the one is unsafe on block, and the other doesn't offer anything more than an air reset (which Ken would probably be happy with anyway for the mixup opportunity).
- Additionally, one presumes the normals that cancel into it apply enough pushback so that Ken will have to run farther and farther each time to get back to the range where he started the pattern. So even if you cancel cMK xx run xx cMK as fast as you possibly can, you're still losing ground.
- Most importantly, it looks like Ken's run has too much startup to combo many followups after normals, even from normals that inflict a lot of hitstun like close/crouch fierce punch. Doubtful he would get anything as good as Fuerte RSF infinites, but even forcing him to use run as a pressure tool rather than easy combo filler helps keep his combo conversions closer to the earthly levels of the rest of the cast. He can't just pack his ground combos to the gills with run filler.
- Another property that might keep Ken's run within "human" limits: I haven't seen anything to indicate yet that it's cancellable to a jump. This is one of the main fears about putting characters with KOF-style runs in Street Fighter that many theory-fighting people don't articulate properly. Having a run cancellable to a jump is a powerful tool in games like KOF and Guilty Gear because it offers a BIG risk to the first and safest counter to a running approach -- just sticking out a big fat ground move like a long-ranged normal or a fireball to stop your opponent in their tracks. If you do that and the opponent run-jumps on reaction, you have given them a GIGANTIC opening for a jump-in into a power-punish combo of their choice. This whiff is made even more significant because running jump mechanics almost always inherit the forward speed of the run, allowing even more ground to be covered. But if SF5 Ken can't do that, and is forced to stop his run on the ground either with an attack (like a fireball of his own) or just letting it stop (it doesn't seem to have a KOF-style "skid"), he can't make every slow-recovering fireball his opponent throws a suicide attempt. So if Ken wants to get in and cMK xx run times n on you, he has to play the ground game first like every other rushdown character in SF.
Even moreso than goofballs like Birdie, I never would have expected Ken to look remotely this interesting to me. I definitely want to give him a whirl in the beta if he's available. The very fact that he can do cMK xx run is very appealing to my playstyle, because I like characters who can control mid-range well with basic pokes and anti-airs, but who can also switch gears to rushdown when they have initiative. SF5 Ken looks like a strong character for that playstyle. Plus he has fire. Lots and lots and lots of fire. _________________
Man, Ishiwatari knows what's up. Though I do wish they would've picked his brain about danger time and hear him defend it or talk about a way to make it just a little less random. I liked one idea I heard about making clashes fill up a bar and the more it filled up the more likely it would happen but be a certainty once filled. I'd kinda dig a three level bar. First clash would be a very low chance, second clash a rough 50% chance and be a sure thing on the third. _________________
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