[Felix]

I think you're suffering from first-build overkill, if you ask me. there's no reason to get a full ATX board unless you really want to SLI two videocards and you can get a Z77 mATX board for <$100 without too much trouble.

the SSD is a reasonably good deal, but you'd be fine with 128GB (or even 64 -- most games aren't going to benefit at all from being able to stream assets at faster-than-hard-drive speeds, so you really don't need more than the OS and productivity stuff on there).

are you encoding video or compiling massive amounts of code on a regular basis? do you really need to be able to run 8 concurrent threads? otherwise, stick with an i5. you can get a 3570k for a little over $200 without trying too hard, or a 2500k for even less if you try.

ram and hard drive look fine. optical drive would be $50 less if you don't care about blu-ray. are you sure you care about blu-ray?

PSU would be fine if not for the crazyperson video card, at which point all bets are off. no one ever wants to listen to me when I tell them there are massively diminishing returns after $200-250, but there you go. the 760 performs very similarly for like $250 (which would be my ceiling) if you can live with 2GB instead of 4 (you can).

basically, I think you ought to be able to shave at least $100 from each of the CPU, the mobo, and the PSU/case combo, and close to $200 on the GPU, to get this down to under $1000, and still have a very high-end build. but it's up to you.

[notbov]

1. depends on the case. you can get roomy stuff in mATX or smaller/more convenient form factors with different ATX cases
2. the only thing you may be hard up on, spacewise, is doing stuff for your cabling, depending on if the case you choose has a cable management solution
3. you can undershoot a little with your PSU, since the wattage stuff given assumes no-name OEM junk. ~500w should be good, 600w-750w would be the safe zone with a single, hungry Nvidia card
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[Iacus]

Yeah the mobo can be mATX. I have no need for dual cards. I can get output for at least two monitor with a single one, if I'm not mistaken.
The only problem would be future expansion, like more RAM. But I guess 16gb is enough for a looong time nowadays.

The SSD won't be for games. Perhaps I'll have a currently-playing one installed there but mostly it's just for OS+Apps. I know 128 gb is sufficient for this, the extra capacity is just future proofing. Plus I want to dual boot a GNU/Linux, and while I don't need more than a spare 20 gb for that, I don't want it eating from my day-to-day windows partition.

I plan to do development and perhaps some 3d rendering as well, hence the multithreading. I'll initially be using Unity but the capability may come in handy. I'm not sure what the difference will be, for daily stuff. Not sure I care for blu-ray enough. I threw that is as a "why not" option more than something I genuinely need.

The video card is, again for future proofing. 2gb might be enough now, but next year the situation might be different. Still, I will research video cards more thoroughly before commiting to one. I'm pretty sure I want an nVidia, though, even if we don't know yet how this Mantle thing will affect nVidia PC owners in the long run.

[Felix]

truthfully I'm not expecting anything other than Intel's open-source drivers and Nvidia's binary drivers to be really viable on Linux anytime soon despite recent developments if that keeps you with Nvidia.

cabling's not that bad, honestly. how often are you going to open the thing up, really? I know I have a reputation for both being cheap and liking tiny cases, but do you really want a space heater?

[Iacus]

Speaking of heat. Will that be an important factor if I go with a compact case for this sort of build?
I don't really want to bother with aftermarket fans and heatsinks if I can avoid it.
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Guayaba 2600

[Felix]

nah. I've never bought an aftermarket heatsink or fan in my life and I love cramming mid-high-end stuff into tiny cases.

fwiw, future-proofing a GPU based only on ram is not really cost effective. unless you really want to play Battlefield 4 in 1440p RIGHT NOW then you're better off getting a $200 2GB GPU today and another $200 4GB GPU in four years that also has doubled processing power, rather than dropping four benjamins on some power-hungry behemoth.

oh, and re: number of monitors: Intel's onboard graphics can do 3 (with 3D on one) as of Ivy Bridge; current AMD and nVidia stuff can do 4 (with 3D on three). Linux is weird about letting you use two different display drivers simultaneously but on Windows, a modern Intel chip plus an AMD/nVidia card means up to 7 monitors. you're fine.

[Iacus]

[Toptube]

So a bunch of info has been released on what's up with AMD's new graphics cards.


In short, they are only actuallly releasing two new cards, which will take 1st and 2nd place spots in AMD's performance corner. They will also feature some new onboard sound tech, which is basically set to bring back hardware accelerated sound to gaming. Along with these new cards is a new naming scheme. All other cards in this naming scheme/product line, will be current GPUs that are rebranded.

Example: The 270x is basically a 7870


it's not simply a rebranding, though. Along with the rebranding, they are doing a sort of refresh on the current products. So, board partners will have more freedom to custom design PCBs. So that could be nice for heat, overclocking, and overall quality. Also, many of these cards will get a memory bump. Not just more memory, but in some cases, faster memory. Right now, the 7870 is only available with 2GB of Vram. The 270x white paper specs say "up to 4gb of Vram".

But, DX11.2 is set to allow texture storage/tiling in system memory and AMD is also toting their own custom version of a similar idea. I'm sure that at crazy resolutions or multiple monitors, the extra Vram will no question be a nice thing to have. But at 1080p, it may not be a big deal, with textures streaming from system memory. Who knows.


All that said, If I were buying a card right now, i'd probably try to get in on one of those deals where you can get a new 7950 for $170 (usually after rebate), with 4 free games. I mean that is just a screaming good deal and nothing in the near future will touch it for value.

[Lucaz]

The pc I'm writing this with is terribly old and now dying. Thinking about replacing, this is what I've got so far (prices on dollars/local currency):

*i7 3770 ($530/3200), 4770 ($560/3400) or i5 2500 ($330/2000). The price difference is quite steep, I don't really know how much is the difference in performance. Also I don't know the difference between standard and k versions.
*GTX 650 ti boost ($330/2000) or GTX 760 ($500/3000), either one with 2gb gddr5. I'm unsure if the price difference is justified considering noone here cares that much about graphics as long as games run at 30 fps with a good resolution and okay detail. I could go for an ATI in same price range if it's better I guess, but I'm completely lost in regards to those. I'm also kinda confused by seeing the same card by different manufacturers at different prices.
*I'm unsure on whether 8 or 16 gb of ram
*I don't know absolutely anything about mobos. Seems like Z77 ($210/1250) and Z87($230/1400) are the way to go, but dunno about the variations and chipset.
*If there's something to know about PSU and cases, besides making sure they are adequate for the mobo, I don't know that either. I guess I'd like to keep the noise down whithin a nice price.

[Felix]

Um, so, a few things:

those USD estimates are about double what they should be in most cases. I'm assuming you converted from your local currency rather than actually looking up prices in America? If so ... ouch, I'm not sure at the extent to which I can recommend deal hunting.

but, wrt your questions:

a 2500k would still be your best and most cost-effective choice for a CPU if not for the fact that there aren't that many in circulation right now -- I got one for $150 right around the time that the 3570k was released, because retailers were selling off their old stock and the preowned market had to undercut the retail deals. since then, they've sat around $180. that said, this is still a very good deal, as all you gain with a 3570k or 4670k is better onboard graphics which you probably don't care about. i7's are basically as fast as i5s (if you're willing to overclock but not willing to invest in crazy cooling equipment, they actually top out at almost the exact same speed) but they can run two threads per each of their four cores rather than one each, so they perform better in heavily threaded workloads. not likely to make a big difference to you.

the difference between the standard and the K versions is that the standard ones are hardware-prevented from overclocking except in limited cases. a 2500 might allow one of its four cores to go up as high at 3.8ghz from a stock of 3.3, but only if you're really working the one core, and no higher than that; a 2500k lets you set it as high as you want within thermal limits. I have a tiny mITX cube case and my 2500k is set to have all four cores at 4.1, which is a substantial (25%) increase from the default.

650 Ti Boost and 760 are indeed the two nVidia cards I'd be choosing between depending on your budget -- they have the most sensible architecture/cost/performance breakpoints. the 760 is actually a little pricey for my tastes and I'm surprised it hasn't come down yet, but nVidia is on the verge of releasing a new architecture, and while it'll be at least six months before they put out a mid-range card in that architecture, it's hard to say whether buying a 760 is a good deal right now. that said, if you're OK with sticking to Windows, a Radeon 7870 is probably a better deal than either one these days, it's just that the Linux drivers aren't really there yet. Asus makes very good GPUs (from both AMD and nVidia) and they usually don't cost much more than competitors'.

if you're unsure about ram, just buy one 8gb stick (rather than 2x4gb), and you can always get another one later.

Z-series motherboards (Z68 for Sandy Bridge and Z77 for Ivy Bridge, though they're almost entirely interchangeable) are indeed best because they're the only ones that allow a) overclocking of CPU, b) overclocking of onboard graphics, and c) setting up an SSD and a hard drive to share a single partition via caching. they usually aren't substantially more expensive than lower-end motherboards, either.

I really like small motherboards and cases -- I'd recommend mATX at the absolute largest, and seriously consider mITX. As long as you don't get a bottom-dollar brand, you're fine.

PSU-wise, for the mid-to-high-end stuff you're looking at, you'll be fine with 400w. PSUs that are built into cases aren't always bad (and if you go after a smallish case, are sometimes unavoidable). the only other rating you need to check if you're getting a cheap or combo PSU is the 12V rail -- you want at least 30A to be safe.

hope that helps!

[Toptube]

Try to find a Radeon 7950. They are pretty much gone now, in the U.S. But they were closing them out for CHEAP. Cheaper than the 7870. (7950's are better than 7870 and have 3GB of Vram). If you can't find one of those, then yes the 7870 is the best value under $200 right now. In the U.S. you can get them for $130 after rebate!

Also, I would wait a couple of weeks to buy a processor. AMD and Dice are supposed to patch Battlefield 4 with AMD's "Mantle" API this month. AMD's 8 core processors are already doing quite well in truly multi-threaded games and applications (giving i7 a run for its money). If AMD's Mantle API even half lives up to the hype, an all AMD system could be a mega value killer.

this 4.4ghz 8 core AMD with a watercooler and Far Cry 3, is $219 today:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113352

It was $289 yesterday.

here's the same processor without the water cooler, for $200:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113346

those are both "black editions" so the internal multiplier is unlocked. Which should make it real easy to hit 5ghz, without having to worry about stressing the motherboard or your ram.

If you have a good mobo and good ram, you can get one of these 4ghz for $169:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284

but the internal multiplier is unlocked. So you'll have to overclock via the external bus, which overclocks the mobo and ram. but, it's a 125w part, so there is potential for a lot of headroom.Also, if you have good ram to accomodate it, overclocking via the external bus should yield a slightly faster system VS. a processor that has been overclocked via the internal multiplier.

[Lucaz]

On the mobo, are cheaper ones like P8Z77-m, Pro3 and d3h good or should I go for more expensive ones like Extreme 4 and Sabertooth? I name those because they are the most readily available around here.

[Felix]

[Toptube]