"With the kinect's high fidelity HD camera, you can cradle the dog in your arms and softly pat it as it bleeds out from a gun shot wound and you can ruminate on the futility of war with our LiveScript™ feature!"
Yeah. Conference was dumb but what I was expecting (Other than a PGR 5 reveal that the Forza Central mod was winding people up on. Jerk). Big showcase for the investors and the nightly news than the core. Which is kinda smart when you think about it when they push it as an "All In One" box. I suppose I'm a bit different than most of you guys as my 360 serves as a surrogate Sky TV Box as well. So if they have the same sort of hook up with Sky as they do with cable in the US, then yeah, I'd kinda swing to this since Sky is a pretty good feature on the 360 as is.
Forza 5 is nice as well. The trailers gone for the minute but I got to see it on the youtubes at 1080P and damn. Definite hints at 60FPS real time as well in it and Turn 10 has confirmed it was the actual engine used in the trailer. Commentator is interesting since that's one of Eurosport's Moto GP guys so E-Sports influence coming to the One?
This is very strange that their communications are so crossed on it. Though it wouldn't shock me if they put it out to see public reaction (It's bad) and then back down on it and say "Fees are a publisher level decision" and let EA take the heat for being the one stupid enough to want a full price activation while smart ones charge nothing (That might be the "flexible" plan Gamespot was hinting at back in January. The ones who want to charge get to charge, the ones who don't want it, don't have to charge. GS can still sell, everyone's happy). It all still sounds in flux at the minute so it's a peeving move but one they might be gauging reaction on.
Also, point of order. Interesting that they used John Hindhaugh of Radio Le Mans as the commentator for the Forza 5 trailer. Online Commentating was an early idea of PGR 3's Gotham TV which really didn't take off due to system limitations and considering there's a big rumor that they are getting League Of Legends as a console level exclusive on the One. I wonder if they have an inbuilt E-Sports platform ala DOTA 2 or will offer the tools to do so to developers. That could be a big swing for Microsoft as a gaming platform. It's the COD Console already, bringing in more e-sports with a platform built in for broadcast and commentary (Or available to developers via Microsoft) could be a popular move.
Microsoft fire your communications director on this launch because daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn. Not even Sony were this catastrophically inept on their press. _________________
That's how bad the communication is. Kinda expect a climb down on the draconian stuff by a fair margin by the time we get to E3. If MS can freak about negative customer reaction to windows 8 where they almost completely redesign the OS and add classic views with Windows Blue as their massive free update, The can have a climbdown over some of their stupid decisions here (Funny, my Brother has a Laptop with Win 8 and he loves it though)
Actually thinking about the TV aspect. I suppose the issue is that TV and film is becoming a hot investment property again. Newscorp's split at the end of this year is already fueling investment speculation (It's splitting into a publishing arm with all Murdoch's papers and publishing houses with the TV and Film splitting into it's own branch. It's fueling investment because the TV and Film branch is consistently profitable while the publishing is somewhat toxic thanks to the hacking scandal), while HBO and the Netflix and Amazon originals are really starting to fuel investment in the TV and Film industry again. Put that with the Cinema resurgence, especially in middle class emerging markets in China and Brazil. And it's a very hot market for the first time in a long while and MS undoubtedly want a slice of that pie. So it makes sense that the console has an additional TV focus and why the reveal had a heavy element in it. They likely want their investors to know they are attempting to be "The TV platform for the next generation" alongside the gaming platform.
Gaming is somewhat down and probably one Zynga bust away from turning it into an investors nightmare and fucking over the market. I'd imagine that Microsoft wants it gaming, since it's a market they need, and also dipping into in a hot market at the minute so they have a back up that also brings in that sweet Hollywood investment money. It's completely offputting if you are a gamer, but I can see why their conference was so focused on the TV aspect of the platform. _________________
Stuff like no backwards compatibility and focus on non-gaming use didn't surprise me, but this is an area where it seems like they had some opportunity to avoid disaster with a decent plan. Guess not.
To be fair, they dealt with Phil Fish on a personal basis during last gen and I would completely understand if the platform behind that policy is "Fuck Off, Phil Fish". _________________
Online is that if a game is multi-only or has a "significant online component" (Next Gen Trend: Everything is Dark Souls). Then you will have to be online. If not, fine. No 24 hour checks. Works offline. Its gravy. Says there will be something that "Pings" the servers but nothing yet on that (My Guess, like Steam's offline mode that if it doesn't connect for a while, it will need you to before you access your online activated content. If not, you can use your disc to play anything not requiring online)
Used is, well. Just the disc. It installs to your account new and you never need the disc again. It's there. If you take it to a friends house, you have to have the disc in the drive at all times (You don't even need to sign in yourself) and if they like it when you go home with the disc, they can buy it for themselves instantly. If you buy it used, you have to keep the disc in the console at all times. So about as draconian as Steam, really. Games will also be available day 1 digital.
The low power state for the box and kinect is only enough for background downloading and recognising "XBox, Turn On" as a comand. It's not going to send that you have been frolicking naked in a room and you won't be suddenly getting window blind catalogues in the post.
Of course, they could be making up policy as they go along but it sounds significantly more sane than it sounded 24 hours ago. _________________
so I can split the price of a game with a friend if one of us is fine with having the disc in console at all times, or am I misunderstanding?
That's pretty much what Harrison says. New copies get the right to put that on your console for life. Used means you have to hold onto the disc.
It sounds like the "Ultimate Edition" style DVD/Blu-Ray policy some film companies have where you get a digital copy you always own as a benefit in buying new while used doesn't have that bonus but still gives you what it says on the box. Used market thrives, but you get benefits for buying new. _________________
Potential MS exclusive stuff that I would care about:
Crackdown (which seems like a legit possibility, since a Crackdown agility orb was shown in the "Games" tab during the presentation)
Project Gotham 5
Killer Instinct
Not enough to sell me a system, but if one just appeared in my living room and those games existed I'd probably buy them.
I am skeptical of MS's ability to make new first party IP that's actually good. Xbox had a bunch of mediocre first party published new IP too: Azurik, NightCaster, Brute Force, Blood Wake, Sudeki, Fuzion Frenzy, Amped, Quantum Redshift, Blinx, etc. We'll see if they can manage to make any good new stuff, or if it's still Halo/Forza/Fable/Kinect with a random smattering of garbage and a very rare gem (i.e. the original Crackdown). They'll have to prove themselves to me.
We are going to have fighting words over Amped and Quantum Redshift but the rest I agree with you with. MS have been pretty bad on that front though their "Throw it against the wall and see what works" attitude was somewhat endearing in the OG X-Box days. PGR 5's had heavy rumors about it so I wouldn't be shocked if that shows up at E3.
Getting back to the policy problems as well. I had a conversation with a friend the other day about it and he doesn't seem to give a shit about the used stuff since "Quake 3 had codes to install it and you couldn't lend it" and "We've been digging the DRM grave for years since we gave Steam so much prominence". So outside of the internet echo chamber, I don't think the used games bit is really going to affect the market as much as a lot of internet people seem to think.
He also had a really gone one that got me as well. "Trade in prices are so shit and always have been this generation that it's not even worth it, especially when they sell it for only five euro off the normal new price". And I look behind and see 100+ 360 games in my shelf and sadly nod because he's right. Everything devalued so quickly that by the time you were finished with most games, there was little point trading them in since Gamestop would give you a pittance for them and not even accept them in some cases (especially yearly sports games). And for most of the generation, local store prices were so good for myself there was no point in trading in anyway since I had the cash to do so and a low price point for it. It's nice to have the option but I kinda see the point. The used game market has been somewhat of a scam with the consumer for a lot of the generation as well and I doubt the audience who picks up FIFA or COD would really care if they lose out on trading in their old one as it's usually so devalued that it's practically worthless at the point a new one comes out.
Should they use so stringent DRM? Absolutely not. We should at least have the options to sell or lend to friends. But the mainstream used market in stores is a massive racket in of itself that fucks consumers as well. So we're somewhat in a zero sum game regarding used copies. Either way is a scam, really. _________________
"The system can make sure the user is simply in the room while it plays, or it can tell the user to hold up a specific product." "rewards, including [...] new clothes and props for an avatar"
This sort of thing, along with all the weird EXERCISE games really reminds me of the creepy panopticon sets from the first chapter of 1984.
I think I'd rather be a prole and just sit these new consoles out. New games suck anyway.
What's amusing about the 1984 comparisons is that people are freaking out about how the camera will be allegedly be tracking them while the console sleeps.
There's a real delusion of grandeur with people who think their lives are so important that Microsoft's going to pry in to their lives. Because they are just that important. Even though Microsoft's detailed that all it can do in low power mode is read motion. I lived in London, the city with the most security cameras in the world for a few years and you learn to know that there's 10 million people in here and they only will look for you if they want you for a very good reason. But people are so freaked out about the "Orwellian" nature that they are convinced they are coming for them. If Microsoft has 10 million Bones in the wild. There not going to comb through the masses and say "Oh God Spiders No just showed up naked on camera again, better throw some window blind catalogues to him in the mail. And maybe some viagra samples".
It's less 1984 and more Walter Mitty. But then there's mountains of hysterics about it and the media have been exceptionally crap at it lately (it's a haven for clickbait for or against the console) that people are genuinely convinced that it's Fifteen Million Merits coming to life.
There's plenty to grumble about with the Bone, but there's a lot of hysteria over something that's not very likely to have an impact. _________________
There's a real delusion of grandeur with people who think their lives are so important that Microsoft's going to pry in to their lives. Because they are just that important. Even though Microsoft's detailed that all it can do in low power mode is read motion. I lived in London, the city with the most security cameras in the world for a few years and you learn to know that there's 10 million people in here and they only will look for you if they want you for a very good reason. But people are so freaked out about the "Orwellian" nature that they are convinced they are coming for them. If Microsoft has 10 million Bones in the wild. There not going to comb through the masses and say "Oh God Spiders No just showed up naked on camera again, better throw some window blind catalogues to him in the mail. And maybe some viagra samples".
it's not like facebook et al are going anywhere with their face recognition software these days, nor does google with ads, auto-complete or user profiles, right?
As the king mentions, there's no need to browse your data manually, algorithms are doing that pretty well already. Tracking certain key words ("time to b*mb some dodongos!") and preferences (shows you watch, information you browse) is nothing that needs extraordinary computing power.
A bit more interesting is connecting the dots, but that is already supported by auto-login on several services - shared accounts on google, googlemail, google+, hangouts, youtubes, flickr, facebook, your console-live-service etc. are doing that quite ok already.
Finally, your mobile phone alone provides more than enough location data to trace where you have been, what you have been doing, and to predict where you are going. See this article I've already linked in 2011 and on several occasions since then.
And the best thing about this whole thing?
Everytime a new way to track people is presented, the reaction is pretty much the same: people are overreacting, it's not as bad etc.
Indeed, it's not as bad as people make it look like. Machines already do know better than we do (e.g. ever wondered about what ESP and ABS do? Have a crack at the systems offered by the current S-class model of Mercedes Benz then, which already knows whether it will crash and takes precautionary action before you realize what's happening) and it's foolish to think that someone will decide "hey guys, let's stop collecting data!" at one point and we're back to the status quo.
I was more having a pop at the people who think they are that ridiculously important that Microsoft will be spying on them remotely of which I have seen an awful lot of people try peddle as their justification for calling it a 1984 box out of their unwaranted self importantce (Also the lack of Pornography games doesn't help their argument).
Again, plenty to grumble about the Bone, but people thinking Microsoft's making the ultimate surveillance box that would make the FBI jealous as fuck are kinda silly when they have been giving up much more intimate data for a while. Microsoft don't need a surveillance box, they will just get your details on log in. _________________
So apparently not only are XBone games region-locked, they're also apparently only usable in the specific region they originate from.
So as someone currently living in the US and planning to move to Europe during this console generation... I can't access any previously paid for game licenses (they're licensed, not purchased) if I move?
Great move, MS. Just great.
You could do that with the 360 through customer support if you wanted your region switched, actually. I'd imagine they would have the same policy there.
Actually I'm tempted to run a pool to see when they will fold on the DRM and online check in now that publishers are running the fuck away from accusations they were responsible. _________________
The leak from Superanuation last night was showing there's a lot of stuff we don't know about the console yet like it does seem like it supports wired peripherals from the 360, has multiple gold accounts, massively improved party support. Region locking seems the same as 360 where it's publisher dependent rather than region free and a lot more things that sound a lot better but MS didn't talk about that.
Agreed it feels strange like MS is the patsy and Sony suddenly saw a chance to claw back though. I don't quite seeing Sony having a commanding lead this gen though considering they gave Microsoft a good 5 month window to get their story straight. Maybe we're not hearing the full Sony story either (And a company that traditionally waits for you to get the product in your home before unleashing firmware on you at that) _________________
People aren't necessarily up in arms about DRM because they can't BUY used games. They're also upset that they can't SELL used games (at least: not on their own terms).
Exactly, and it removes a lot of competitive pressure for Gamestop and the like to keep even relatively fair buy-back prices for games. There are people now who realize selling their games to GS doesn't get them as much money back as selling on eBay or somewhere, but there's some convenience factor there and at least if you play the system right (trade 3 games get an extra $XX promotion, etc.) there are some OK deals selling stuff back to Gamestop.
Gamestop today at least has a little more pressure to keep the prices they pay people for used games just high enough to generate sales. With reduced competition from only having to worry about the other "select" retailers, logically it's not a very unrealistic proposition that Gamestop can get away with reducing the prices they pay for used games even more than they currently do.
It's pure anti-competitive behavior, colluding with their authorized business partners (somewhat like the current suit involving Apple and eBook publishers accused of manipulating the market for eBook prices, except in this case instead of high sale prices it's more an issue of potentially decreased market options/buyback prices for consumers). It honestly wouldn't shock me to see some kind of unfair competition or anti-trust suit by the US government (or EU). MS is no stranger to those kinds of issues, if there's one thing they have traditionally been consistent about it's pushing the boundaries of the law in that area.
What country are you living in that gamestop's trade ins are not a massive scam? If anything, Microsoft are probably trying their hand at this since Gamestop's trade in's are a massive scam in of itself that would get hammered in court. Double negative, go fuck you-are selves.
This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Quote:
Fortunately there is a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity. It's called the PS4.
PS. It's hilarious that Microsoft are scheduling AMA's and answering questions with Reddit and Sony won't even talk to them. Microsoft are at least a company honest that they are going to fuck you raw. _________________
Wait, how does the PlayStation 4 not have any games?
OK fine, you have Collar Duty, Battlefield, FIFA that Ubi hacking game and the three shitty "exclusives" sony decided to throw you because fuck you, we don't give a fuck. Have a lego clone, a halo clone and an awful racer. _________________
Say, isn't this generation kind of missing a sales pitch?
Current gen was 'THE FUTURE IS HD!!!'
What is this upcoming generation supposedly changing (for the better)?
Elimination of Consumer rights. Pick if you want it to be blunt via Microsoft or slowly stabbing you in the back and twisting the knife via Sony. _________________
look, the whole DRM thing aside, I think the Xbone is a reasonably good system and it will probably be worth getting at some point
but seriously, it seems like everyday since Monday, someone from MS has said something stupid, frustrating and/or infuriating. they could very well win this generation in the long run, but for now, they're too busy not delivering a single, unified message. the PR department is asleep at the wheel and they'll probably stumble out of the gates for the first few months. they just need to get everyone on a leash (especially the Xbox support twitter, good god), tell them to shut up and deliver a single, on-target message about the what and how and why, because as it stands now, they're just poisoning the waters. say what you will about the PS4 and it's lineup and the shitty stuff Sony has done in the past, but at least they've been saying the same thing since their reveal in February. people like getting one answer and they like getting the right answer and MS has been failing badly at this.
Sony's been already doing shitty stuff behind the scenes. HID is gone for a new proprietary tech which means fight sticks are dead (Mad Catz and Hori said not compatible) and racing wheels are also mostly dead (Logitech say no, Fanatec say they aren't sure. Though Evolution studios say they have a solution for DriveClub so it remains to be seen) and the first PS Plus game is a "Prologue" version of DriveClub where you only get a certain amount of the game and have to pay for the rest. In other words, paying for a glorified demo. This is the sort of stuff that would have been headline news in 2006 and at least would have got some UK Resistance SONY LIE WATCH posts going but MS have been so catastrophic that Sony's getting away with significantly crappy moves against the consumer because Don Mattrick just said something idiotic again and the news wants to talk about that instead. _________________
Sony's been already doing shitty stuff behind the scenes. HID is gone for a new proprietary tech which means fight sticks are dead (Mad Catz and Hori said not compatible) and racing wheels are also mostly dead (Logitech say no, Fanatec say they aren't sure.
So, just like it has been for most previous generations? Just buy the inevitable converter like I did to use my Saturn sticks on my Dreamcast, or my PS2 sticks on other systems. Or mod your fancy custom stick wtih the equally inevitable PS4-supporting PCB.
If you're going to complain about a device with a USB input not working on a system, why not complain that your MadCatz stick doesn't work on both PS3 and 360 systems? I just accept that most out-of-the-box peripherals are not guaranteed to work with other systems, and I'll either have to mod, get a converter, or buy a system-specific accessory.
Plus, it's still up in the air whether all USB PS3 peripherals will stop woking on PS4. It may be a matter of how the devices were designed, so Hori sticks could work while MadCatz don't, for instance.
Hori confirmed on their twitter their sticks won't work on PS4. HID is completely gone for a new proprietary digital signature and hardware and apparently Evolutions solution for DriveClub on wheels is to use the wheel's in built PC software if it includes it.
HID support has been around for wheels as a well and there are people still using their Logitech's since GT3 up to GT5 and those things cost much more than sticks. It's disingenuous to say "Oh if you love your peripheral so much you will upgrade it" when there was nothing wrong with HID in the first place and it reeks of Sony seeing Microsoft money in Peripheral sales and deciding to screw a mountain of legacy support. HID is still a fine standard. And a wheel is something not as easy where you can run a pass through converter on it. And dropping HID support in general is just bullshit on an extreme level and an open middle finger to the customer when there's no good reason to do it other than "Buy more peripherals" since HID is fine as is. "Buy a Passthrough or a new PCB if you care that much" is kinda a garbage handwave away as well.
It's plain opportunism and it's appalling Sony gets a free pass on it because Microsoft's doing their greatest Basil Fawlty impression at the minute. _________________
Another video on the show floor of that demo from Tested (Along with a look at the new pad). The presenter is right in the face of Kinect and it's still picking him up. It still has noticeable lag but it's a heck of a lot more impressive than it was. And Microsoft are pushing it as a user interface rather than a controller outside of some games like Kinect Sports Rivals so we will probably see a lot more use of it in different ways like the one in Dead Rising 3 where they mentioned sound in your real room can be used to distract and attract zombies.
Also apparently there's a lot of rumours swirling Microsoft will be announcing something regarding Indie self publishing and dev kits for XBone at BUILD today on top of that. _________________
Tinfoil hats are the only FDA approved method of Kinect blocking.
Current kinect (and eyetoy) software detect covering the camera as an "action", so I don't think adding anything in front of the camera would go unnoticed in the great new beyond.
I can think of several cases where a dummy plug might be useful that aren't related to big brother and rather to plainer, Google Mail level targeting. Say, blocking ads targeted to whatever the device decides is your culture or environment. Making sure the device isn't evaluating your physical appearance and making gender decisions. Removing DRM based on audience numbers. Cheating the identification system to buy age-restricted software.
A lot of Kinect paranoia seems to stem more from angry fanboys of other consoles trying to poison the well since if you look at it in legal terms, Microsoft's extremely limited in what it can do as regards advertising metadata (to the point where they probably can't even do it in Europe) and wiretap laws mean they can't actually watch you (And the legal system is practically begging for a test case since Robbins Vs Lower Merion School District settled and the Federal case has been stalled for a few years now). Even the NSA and FBI are really limited since Judges have repeatedly refused webcams as part of warrants and there's a lot of precedent out there. It's hamstrung as hell for them to get any sort of data out of it that's not usage metadata since any deviation from it is going to breach. Never mind the EU where it's practically limited due to the EU data comission and the cloud servers are in Ireland, the only EU country with tougher data protection laws than Germany. So a clusterfuck in the waiting if they even thought of it.
It's a practical impossibility to pull off and a potential legal shitstorm that Microsoft would have the sense to stay well away from (Even the developer metadata for Kinect will be opt in) but "CONSOLE possibly SPIES ON YOU" is a sexier headline and massive fanboy bait that gets people riled up. _________________
Microsoft decides that maybe they kinda sorta actually do want indies to stop running away from their system.
Part of me thinks too little, too late, though. They burned a lot of people and hard turnaround reversals are hard to swallow seriously, since they've proven they don't actually want to take this path.
If turnaround reversals were hard to swallow then the entire industry and culture would have been choking to death listening to Sony Circa 2006-2010.
"Every XBone is a devkit" is neat though. No excuses for that Skullgirls EX edition now. Get hopping, Lab Z. _________________
by "complete horseshit" you mean "pretty much totally right w/r/t the ms stuff" right
Mirror's edge 2 MS exclusive was wrong
Prince Of Persia Exclusive was wrong
PSN staying free was wrong
MS Buying off mentions of games on other consoles was completely wrong
We will never know what his MS predictions were like because of the XBox 180.
Man didn't have a perfect record (And even admitted it) and also your atypical NeoGAF circle jerk surrounding him and taking everything as gospel.
He's as reliable as Surfer Girl. End of.
Winona Ghost Ryder wrote:
RobotRocker, you are totally getting an Xbox One at launch with Killer Instinct aren't you?
God no. Waiting a year on any of those consoles because early adaptation is for suckers. Both companies are maliciously anti-consumer. I'm just more highly skeptical of Sony because Microsoft is the devil you know stumbling around and creating a youtube fail video. Sony's the one who gradually erodes your rights and has a cult of personality around it blocking it from criticism.
Hell, I suggested "I'd love to subscribe to PS Plus but there's not a lot of incentive for a new member. Wouldn't it be nice if new members could get five past titles from Sony's first party to help their instant game collection" and got met with "SPOILED AND ENTITLED SHUT UP AND SUBSCRIBE ENTITLED".
Seriously. Fuck em' both but fuck Sony even harder. Can't fucking stand Sony. Why can't Samsung wipe them from the face of the earth already? _________________
Well done select button. You just can't let a grudge go even a month afterwards and you decide to get personal. I hope you're happy.
Hi NeoGAF. I don't know what select button got butthurt enough to try pull dirt because of Something I said but I bet it's hilarious that you went to all that effort to pull something out of another website without context or any respect. (PS. Take a fucking joke for once)
I'd throw in a goatman but fuck it. I can't even be bothered on that. _________________
Last edited by RobotRocker on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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