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Nextbox hype/disappointment station

 
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:54 pm        Reply with quote
Toptube wrote:
I don't know what the inside of an Xbone looks like


Yep, 120mm fan.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one-development-photos/?viewall=true

Given these pictures and the size of that heatsink I don't really expect the PS4 to be any smaller, to be honest.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:01 am        Reply with quote
Steam also no longer blocks credit cards from other countries, or at least it has been working for me for the past two years. You just have to set the "country" to your current location, rather than what's on the credit card address.

Also like this article mentions:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-07-microsoft-kills-game-ownership-and-expects-us-to-smile

...the phrasing Microsoft uses then talking about games is much more insidious. You no longer purchase game content, and rather a game license, and this is how they can bend first ownership laws (Kindle users might be familiar with this).

EDIT: This is compounded by the term "on the cloud". As I see the wording, the game resides on the cloud, you earn the rights to use that cloud version, but all you have on your machine is "local storage", meaning it is as valid as a piece of software as say, cookies or your browser cache and they can do with it what they want.
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Last edited by Takashi on Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:15 pm        Reply with quote
BenoitRen wrote:
But it's exactly because consoles aren't just PC boxes that they're (relatively) easy to emulate with a good degree of fidelity. The hardware is completely standardised. Important PC hardware like graphics cards is proprietary as well, so becoming PC boxes won't help as much as you'd like to think.

I agree, up to a point. It's rather the usage of RISC CPUs that makes console emulation easier. Simulating a uniform x86/GPU conbination isn't easy at all as this writeup on Xbox emulation comments.

But nobody writes code directly for graphic cards nowadays - both DirectX and OpenGL provide graphic APIs and shader programming languages that are hardware independent. As such, the fact that graphic card drivers being proprietary is not an issue to keep the code running - all is needed is that future (proprietary) hardware can read the open APIs correctly.

It's also worth noting PC developers are more open towards providing either partial or full source code under various licenses, in order to preserve and maintain software. Doom will always be playable because we can replicate it in any platform and execute the proprietary data blob in multiple pieces of hardware. In consoles, this is not only impossible to perform, it is downright ilegal under most NDAs.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:38 pm        Reply with quote
BenoitRen wrote:
Takashi wrote:
It's also worth noting PC developers are more open towards providing either partial or full source code under various licenses, in order to preserve and maintain software. Doom will always be playable because we can replicate it in any platform and execute the proprietary data blob in multiple pieces of hardware. In consoles, this is not only impossible to perform, it is downright ilegal under most NDAs.

Is there any other company than id Software that releases the source code of their commercial games? Besides indies, I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_video_games_with_later_released_source_code
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:33 pm        Reply with quote
The crazy part is... we don't know, and Microsoft is unlikely to tell us because they don't want to go on record over what are the actual restrictions of the system.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:34 pm        Reply with quote
RobotRocker wrote:
The leak from Superanuation last night was showing there's a lot of stuff we don't know about the console yet like it does seem like it supports wired peripherals from the 360, has multiple gold accounts, massively improved party support. Region locking seems the same as 360 where it's publisher dependent rather than region free and a lot more things that sound a lot better but MS didn't talk about that.
They say they support 3PP (third party peripherals), not existing ones. But yes, it's likely that at least the ones that are PC compatible (all of them?) will work.

RobotRocker wrote:
Agreed it feels strange like MS is the patsy and Sony suddenly saw a chance to claw back though. I don't quite seeing Sony having a commanding lead this gen though considering they gave Microsoft a good 5 month window to get their story straight. Maybe we're not hearing the full Sony story either (And a company that traditionally waits for you to get the product in your home before unleashing firmware on you at that)
Even if they flipflop back into a DRM-based solution, they are still selling a $100 cheaper Xbox One. That said, they already moved multiplayer into the Plus account, and they haven't mentioned how digital downloadable content will work as regards sharing and registering in another console - knowing Sony it will be much more restrictive than the Xbox One, since those rules apply to both digital and physical content.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:37 pm        Reply with quote
Are people so attached to their gamerscore that they won't consider the PS4? Or is it a matter of controller and established friend circles?
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:49 pm        Reply with quote
Felix wrote:
notbov wrote:
even if the gaming PC thing, it's kind of a given that stuff doesn't run on systems before launch/during demos

but the use of a nvidia GPU is... what's a cross between hilarious and pathetic?


yeah, that part's not too surprising. Titan is a ridiculous $1000 GPU, I have to imagine that part's being exaggerated; if not, whatever, they could still do optimization work. fuck consoles this is stupid.

Don't forget developers are being told they can offload GPU calculations to a huge Azure cloud, as long as you don't need them right away (100ms lag or something). So I guess the dev units are specced accordingly?
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:50 am        Reply with quote
This Machine Kills Fascis wrote:
Wait.... Does the XBone play Blurays? Just curious. I feel like that's still a perk for families who rent physical movies from Netflix or maybe home theater nerds.
You'd think the home theater nerds would go nuts over MS, but Sony is the only company openly commited to 4K video delivery.

Of course, the XBox 360 can do the same, but they have no content partners at the moment/don't want to turn this into another HD-DVD moment.

On that note, I sure loved all the fantastic new 3D content present in this year's E3. Truly it was the wave of the future.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:18 am        Reply with quote
Yeah, that is a bit of poor communication. "DirectX 11+ feature set" doesn't mean the API itself, just the feature set:
Quote:
"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."

But on top of that Sony is also providing what it terms a "wrapper API" that more closely resembles the standard PC rendering APIs.

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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:54 pm        Reply with quote
Of course they will still be playable. I mean, just like you can enjoy all the MSN Music you purchased.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:59 am        Reply with quote
I'm with RobotRocker on this being an exceedingly shitty move, against everything Sony did for the past decade and they need to be called up, but what you said:

RobotRocker wrote:
Hori confirmed on their twitter their sticks won't work on PS4. HID is completely gone for a new proprietary digital signature and hardware and apparently Evolutions solution for DriveClub on wheels is to use the wheel's in built PC software if it includes it.


Makes no sense at all. PS4 doesn't run Windows (or Linux for all we know), so no current executable format is compatible - and even if it was, that would mean you could run unsigned code on the PS4, as that's what "built PC software" is. So there must be something missing here.
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Last edited by Takashi on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:04 pm        Reply with quote
boojiboy7 wrote:
Persona mobile wrote:
Every post has thousands of comments filled with ascii middle fingers and thumbs downs. It's a testament to the amazing pettiness of consumerist nerds.


though the post from MS to "all their ascii loving friends" is a funny enough reply.
But aren't petty consumerist nerds their target audience?
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 am        Reply with quote
Ronnoc wrote:
I just realized that I bought both my 360 and my PS3 used. I don't supposed, if they're limiting used games, this will be possible on the Xbone?
They are very clear in that the games are tied to your account, not the machine, so used consoles are very likely to work like the current ones.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:09 am        Reply with quote
Yeah, no use getting stuck on this. Microsoft listened to demands, folded.
This is way better than Sony systemic removal of owner rights in the last generation with zero community feedback.

TOP POST PAGE STATUS:


(albeit, now I'm curious if Steam will move ahead with the borrowing/sharing functionality)
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:12 pm        Reply with quote
MS likely listened to the preorder estimates.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:24 pm        Reply with quote
chocolatecoffin wrote:
I was almost more interested in seeing what their potential was (albeit disinterested as a possible consumer).

Potential was huge. Had they went full digital and removed the Blu-Ray drive it's likely they would be in a much better situation. Here's some other terrible, but likely better accepted solutions for the non-digital divide:

- Add a kindle-style wispernet solution for the authentication data package (chances are the ARM SoC they use on the low power mode could do all the cellphone bits already, just missing radio). Offset the costs by selling ads and location info to the participating telcos/NSA/whatever.

- Shitty or no internet at all? Offer an external Blu-Ray drive. Have a RedBox style solution where you can "rent a game" from participating shops, have them delivered to your house ala Netflix, etc. Make it clear they are not game discs and you can't own them, offer to "unlock" the full game after the rental period. And you can still watch Blu-Ray movies and whatnot with it.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:00 pm        Reply with quote
Ymer wrote:
So if I'm reading this correctly why the hell not just give EVERYONE access to these 30 minute demos of all games?

Because them there would be no need for a social network, and there wouldn't be any ... perks? I dunno. The very concept that someone thought that timed demos would save the industry and fails to understand why nobody in PR mentioned that particular detail is baffling me.

"Sony game sharing", I believe, is the fact that if you buy and install one game on a PS3, everyone that has an account in that PS3 can also play your games and keep their own saves/achivements. Apparently some developers took issue with this and added DRM "to quell gamers from taking advantage of a poorly thought out system". Can someone confirm?

"We at the Xbox division have always been for the gamer" is the sort of dumb mantra that embellishes corporate newsletters, but still not sure how real this is (I'd really like to see the MS feedback).
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:42 pm        Reply with quote
LandRoverAttack wrote:
Microsoft mentioned that they would support their XBone DRM once the console was obsolete, but what about their 360 DRM which promises to be obsolete coming soon? Xbox 1 (argh) has already had its service shut down...
PSN games (and non-XBLA games?) will run until you delete/lose the file or the machine breaks. Then you're SOL, and that's DRM for you.

Steam isn't that different in their approach, except you can actually make legal backups of your data.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:54 pm        Reply with quote
radish wrote:
https://twitter.com/aarongreenberg/statuses/347911202057379840
https://twitter.com/notwen/status/348092374842474497

Microsoft employees denying the time limit rumors
I feel like they aren't being very descriptive, what likely means it's not a time limit and rather some other limitation.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:56 pm        Reply with quote
If I recall correctly, the 60Gb version of the PS3 released in Europe ran the PS2 software BC. I don't ever think it was strictly disabled from the consoles that had it, tho (unlike, say, OtherOS).
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:39 pm        Reply with quote
Toptube wrote:
Also, even more obvious; if they can spend 1 billion on servers for graphics and engine augmentations, why not just spec the Xbone with better hardware?
Microsoft, like pretty much every supplier that isn't Amazon, is desperate to prove public clouds are cost-effective and capable of all all kinds of fantastic feats, even if that means they have to hire themselves.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:00 pm        Reply with quote
SWAT teams breaking into your apartment the moment you unplug the Kinect (tm) from your XBox (tm) One (tm) due to EULA infringement.

Actually, I can see a market for "dummy Kinects", that you plug into the USB port and just retransmit the information of a single white male person in their late 20's, sitting alone, forever.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:55 am        Reply with quote
Tinfoil hats are the only FDA approved method of Kinect blocking.

Current kinect (and eyetoy) software detect covering the camera as an "action", so I don't think adding anything in front of the camera would go unnoticed in the great new beyond.

I can think of several cases where a dummy plug might be useful that aren't related to big brother and rather to plainer, Google Mail level targeting. Say, blocking ads targeted to whatever the device decides is your culture or environment. Making sure the device isn't evaluating your physical appearance and making gender decisions. Removing DRM based on audience numbers. Cheating the identification system to buy age-restricted software.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:08 pm        Reply with quote
It's worth noting that a XBox One is fast enough and has a data connection big enough (under optimal recommended conditions) that it can download several ads, select the ones "best suited" to you based on the Kinect biometric data (no storage needed - it can just do this in real time), and customize your experience without ever having to send back a byte of metadata*. Likewise, the DRM lock for a given number of persons, the requirement to be sitting and other suggested uses, those are all real-time data gathering methods that have nothing to do with metadata or NSA servers and are rather more related with the face detection feature on your camera.

*I mean, I can make a case that it can send back the viewthrough rate for ads (that is linked to the biometric data in a somewhat roundabout way) and use that, together with the XBox Live profile with information you volunteered to give, to "optimize" the next ad packets.
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:16 pm        Reply with quote
Balmer restructured Microsoft, effectively dividing and killing their game division in the process.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/11/microsoft_reorg_kills_product_groups/
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:37 pm        Reply with quote
mauve wrote:
ouya has always been a tinkerer's platform, i'm not sure how anyone could have expected that it would have mainstream success or be a viable platform for anything but being a hilarious gimmick
The Ouya was sold as an alternative to main consoles, not as a tinkerer thing. To saying it "always has been" is some powerful retconning.

mauve wrote:
google and apple are setting forth strategies to do the same thing, both of which will likely be markedly more successful.
I seem to remember something about that, but I haven't heard about such strategies in months.What do you mean exactly?
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:56 am        Reply with quote
mauve wrote:
They sold the Ouya as one, yes, and they still do. Find me interest from non-tinkerers beyond "huh, okay, that's a cool thing I guess?" I'm not really convinced it was ever there. I know they tried, but I don't think they picked the right angle for it.
I agree, but some (a lot?) of people bought into it, mass kicksteria effect aside. And I don't buy that Google is that interested in making a games device (but it will offer a consistent online leaderboard/highscore system soon because that was a ridiculous omission). On the other side, I'd totally buy the iPippin...

Annnd yeah. the 3Gb thing. I was going to risk that all of this was going through the Windows Store system yesterday. What is fine for 80% of indies (basically it's an instaport if you have a PC ver), but still kinda shitty if you're a serious indie studio?
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Takashi



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:49 am        Reply with quote
I don't think they're making any changes to the configuration, that's what "planned from the get-go" means. It's still a reasonable amount of power, say, more than XNA would give on XBox.
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