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Nextbox hype/disappointment station
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:06 pm        Reply with quote

I'm expecting something slightly worse than PS4; vaguely interesting but not really relevant to me
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:17 pm        Reply with quote

now let me set up the aspiration
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:18 pm        Reply with quote

now let me (unh) set up the (unh)

CONSUMER ELECTRONICS
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:18 pm        Reply with quote

I don't like myself for watching this

not one bit
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:19 pm        Reply with quote

XBOX, GO HOME
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:20 pm        Reply with quote

WE ARE GOING TO MAKE TELEVISION USEFUL
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:21 pm        Reply with quote

DELAYED GRATIFICATION IS A THING OF THE PAST
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:23 pm        Reply with quote

XBOX, AUTOEROTIC ASPHYXIATION
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:24 pm        Reply with quote

XBOX, OPIATE MASSES
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:26 pm        Reply with quote

XBOX, PRESERVE DECAYING COMMERCIAL EMPIRES
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:27 pm        Reply with quote

at Xbox, we don't tuck our shirts in
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:29 pm        Reply with quote

I just absentmindedly put some porn on in my other monitor while watching this
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:30 pm        Reply with quote

did that guy just say 9/11 changed everything
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:34 pm        Reply with quote

FUCK 1999

FUCKING SHIT
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:37 pm        Reply with quote

I guess Australians heretofore haven't had much occasion to pronounce the world "revolutionary"
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:41 pm        Reply with quote

I want to show you my ludonarrative stream
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:44 pm        Reply with quote

holy shit it's Tim Allen
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:46 pm        Reply with quote

Xbox ONE runs exclusively on fossil fuels
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:51 pm        Reply with quote

admitting that you think the television screen is more "important" than, say, a terminal through which someone may access wikipedia in their home is actually fairly appalling
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:53 pm        Reply with quote

we are cheering lost productivity and someone who inherited an overcooked franchise but hey at least it's a lady
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:55 pm        Reply with quote

STEVEN SPIELBERG'S HALO: TINY TOON ADVENTURES ZWEI: THE PIXELS OF PONG
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:12 pm        Reply with quote

in point of fact I am expecting this game to be as initially impressive as Modern Warfare and then diminished by having inadvertently defined half a decade of samey crap

although maybe without the anti-war message
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:40 pm        Reply with quote

remote, I think you're a little overenthusiastic about the 3DS right now

EAD finally produced some non-shit, and the alternative is pretty unattractive currently, but it has all of maybe two games which will be remembered in five years and their closed marketplace is vastly inferior to Steam in terms of both cost and selection

it's vaguely decent, which is saying something, but don't hold it up that high
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 6:44 pm        Reply with quote

radish wrote:
I think it looks kinda neat as a piece of hardware

firenze wrote:
notbov wrote:
I don't know, the PS4 looks shockingly competent after the reveal of this... thing


I'm quite fine with PS4. Their reveal made a serious effort to focus on games, they seem to have learned from their PS3 mistakes with the system being easy to develop for, have a pretty open attitude toward developers. I'm gonna need some way to play the console only stuff that will come out (say, the new Guilty Gear).


Yeah, basically.


yup, PS4 is very respectable, I still hope that everything just comes out on PC instead thanks to that good ol' x86 commonality, but I can at least say of it that it isn't dystopian
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:36 pm        Reply with quote

boojiboy7 wrote:
oh yeah, so i guess consumer electronics as a whole, then. because man, my dad runs a hobby shop and even he can't tell you what anybody's stocks are doing there.


yup, definitely consumer electronics as a whole, not just gaming

though of course the whole point of the CableBox is that the two are now commercially indistinguishable

also every time someone mentions Guilty Gear as the sort of game you need a console for I remember that there's a BlazBlue port to PC! which shocked me!


Last edited by Felix on Tue May 21, 2013 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:17 pm        Reply with quote

Continuum Shift is on PC too though not officially -- it turns out that x86 is so dominant these days that it's what the few remaining arcade-native titles are using, and the official release tends to get leaked and will run fine in a wrapper.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:23 pm        Reply with quote

BotageL wrote:
Felix wrote:
Continuum Shift is on PC too though not officially -- it turns out that x86 is so dominant these days that it's what the few remaining arcade-native titles are using, and the official release tends to get leaked and will run fine in a wrapper.

They solved that problem by making all subsequent versions use an always-online, always-Internet-connected arcade system like Nesica x Live or Sega's equivalent. And all the hardware required to access said download/Internet service is leased, not sold, and arcades are charged about 30 yen per 100 yen credit every time someone plays the game on top of all the other costs. It won't be happening again. All the similar ones still happening (Daemon Bride, etc.) are from older hardware which simply didn't have any public dumps floating around.


good to know! I'm actually not a big fightman guy, but I appreciate the clarification.

in other news, though I don't always love her stuff, Leigh Alexander's piece (just linked by pat via twitter) on this thing is really spot on: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/192709/Opinion_Xbox_One_is_a_desperate_prayer_to_stop_time.php
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:00 pm        Reply with quote

I just typed this on facebook w/r/t Leigh's piece if anyone cares:

Alex Garnett except that it seems somehow grounded in a belief that consoles should somehow be better than this, which I've never understood. this is how big media companies are expected to behave -- race-to-the-bottom targeting of the suburbs and people who don't think of Lem or Vonnegut when the presentation talks about how YOU DESERVE INSTANTANEOUS CONSUMER ELECTRONICS
2 minutes ago · Edited · Like

Alex Garnett people tend to think I'm somehow being superior when I say "if you want to play games and respect yourself, get a PC (or put wine on OSX or linux, it works well, honestly, stop being frightened when I say that, come on, people), download indies, ta da." somehow there's this belief that what I'm proposing is too complicated and gets away from the games themselves, but ... you can't decide that you only want X amount of marketing vs. convenience. this is what gets sold to you. you have options, exercise them.
15 minutes ago · Like

Alex Garnett I know that I tend to view the world in a way that always has me saying "well of COURSE big bad corporation acted this way, what are you so upset about?" but I guess I just underestimate folks' affections for What Game Consoles Are Supposed to Represent or something. in any case, the PS4 actually looks remarkably classy by comparison, though I'm still hoping that the x86 architecture will just encourage PC ports so I don't actually have to buy a PS4 proper.
11 minutes ago · Like

Alex Garnett I'm cool with the fact that this is not a product for me, I was bitter about the 360 introducing those gotdang immersion-breaking popup achievements eight years ago and never forgave them for that (never bought anything xbox-related, though I was surprised at how much of the gaming intelligentsia decided the 360 was a good thing -- I ignored this gen until getting a PS3 in 2011 so reserving judgment there). I hope it does okay with its intended audience. as usual, I am hard to disappoint
3 minutes ago · Edited · Like
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:14 pm        Reply with quote

I think the main problem is her use of the word "privileged" instead of "suburban"

or "non-participatory" or "consumer fetishist" or whatever but you get the idea


Last edited by Felix on Tue May 21, 2013 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Felix
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:31 pm        Reply with quote

let it be said that Android games remain pretty bad and the situation isn't all that much better on iOS
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:37 am        Reply with quote

iOS has been better than devs for Android up until very recently, I'm not disputing that, I'm just saying that the stuff on these platforms still pales by comparison to $5-$10 steam indies, with exceptions that can be counted on one hand. I mostly still believe this will change, but it's not quite there.

I actually thought the momentum was better a couple years ago between Pac-Man CE and Infinity Gene and HookChamp.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:48 am        Reply with quote

while thatbox's point about sorta sinking her own ship with the iDevice "counterpoint" is a good one, I maintain (in part because I have the same bone to pick) that her only real error in trying to make a statement about class is apparently not understanding that plenty of lower-middle-class folks build their homes around their TV sets too
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:42 am        Reply with quote

thatbox wrote:
Felix wrote:
while thatbox's point about sorta sinking her own ship with the iDevice "counterpoint" is a good one, I maintain (in part because I have the same bone to pick) that her only real error in trying to make a statement about class is apparently not understanding that plenty of lower-middle-class folks build their homes around their TV sets too


Hrm. There also seems to be sort of a willful ignorance of the - for lack of a better term - redistribution of gaming. Yeah, maybe if you got a Genesis and six games when it launched someone could make some assumptions about your class, but since at least the PS2 it's been a pretty risky proposition. I acknowledge that we're all super privileged even to be able to play videogames and argue about them on the internet, but the hobby has been getting less exclusive, not more. Similarly, TVs are much less expensive now, so the implication of building one's home around a TV set is also less loaded (as you said).


I don't necessarily think it's less loaded, I think it's just loaded in a different way. I would venture to guess that it follows the same inverse bell curve of income as does Republicanism. but maybe I'm too willing to meet her halfway here.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:10 pm        Reply with quote

as I've said, I don't think you ought to expect the consumer technology company who wants to monetize whatever they can and may have sound engineering reasons for making backwards compatibility difficult or impossible to take up the burden of digital preservation.

I also think the fact that game consoles up until recently have been stable targets that can be counted on one hand over a period of half-decades (and pirate groups generally take care of firmware differences in later-model consoles) makes the digital preservation burden significantly less than it is in other computing genres. I think your response to this is that you want videogames to be independent of technology, and to be somehow as transferable from one medium to the next as music and film are perceived to be, but that's an entirely unreasonable desire.

tl;dr people are working on this. there are ways to make this effort.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:47 pm        Reply with quote

because they are going to sell it with a contract through comcast in lieu of the DVR thing you currently get from your cable company, duh
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Felix
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:55 pm        Reply with quote

as benren pointed out to me not long ago, both the Cell and the 360 CPU use a newish PPC core which is well-documented for emulation on x86 (hence why Wii emulation moved as fast as it did), and while Cell will pose the problem of keeping a lot of different elements in sync and probably require a fair amount of CPU overhead (as PCSX2 does), it's far from impossible.

one of the reasons that progress on emulation of the original Xbox stalled is that people assumed that because it's also x86 it would be possible to just write an interpreter like Wine to handle directX calls and that sort of thing, but reverse engineering it proved surprisingly difficult for the handful of folks making an effort, and apparently the GeForce 3 derivative in there has a lot of undocumented registers.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:39 am        Reply with quote

mauve wrote:
the only experience the matters is one's own, not the intended one in the world that existed at the time of release. you can never recreate that and it's pointless to do so; you would be viewing everything through a modern context anyway.

devs and publishers are never going to do anything about saving old media, because that is their competition. plus occasionally the rights are just completely lost; just try to get any of the old wizardry games anywhere. heck, even continuing to sell can be a problem, look at the rerelease of Doom where they had to censor up the iwads a bit for public access. (ones nobody uses for multiplayer because they're incompatible with the standard.)

emulation, or specifically platform compatibility layers (i have had old games that are legitimately easier to run in wine than on actual windows) is pretty much the only guaranteed right for the archivist that doesn't have continuously migrate dead hardware.


yup, exactly this. but mauve and I already knew we agreed.

Rokkan, conflating "emulation is illegal" with "pirating games is illegal" is a huge difference.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:08 am        Reply with quote

a lot of us are broken records in plenty of other respects (we are, after all, arguing on the internet), don't begrudge Benren his Wii loving.

also, seriously guys, the extent to which Microsoft is DGAFing. They are going to sell this through cable companies and they now have the worst policy on indies.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:18 pm        Reply with quote

given it's the same architecture and most games have a higher postprocessing load than anything else these days, at least at the higher end, I imagine it'll just be a matter of devs turning off ambient occlusion or AA on xbone ports.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:03 pm        Reply with quote

the thing is that some of those postprocessing libs are pretty close to being off-the-shelf (see: the popularity of enbseries and FXAA on PC lately) so we're talking like a couple days work to ensure that your ps4 port of your xbone-native title takes advantage of the extra muscle

it's still directX vs weird sony openGL fork but current HLSL dev tools make that a nonissue

or, as bennett said, just don't lock it to 30fps, or run a higher resolution.
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Felix
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:29 am        Reply with quote

http://thepiratebay.sx/search/xbla/0/99/0

they are not lost. see? there just isn't a good way for end users to access these yet.
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