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Pijaibros
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Casino Night Zone
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 Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:27 pm |
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| Drem wrote: |
| I can't help but feel like we didn't make as much use of this opportunity as we could have. |
I think it's because the consumers who would complain the loudest don't have any real games to play (launch lineup stinks, IMO) right now. We're also broke. I'm not the only one who has learned the hard-lesson of not being the first-in-line for new technology. Redrings and Yellow lights everywhere.
If I do buy a new console it would likely be by the 3rd iteration of the hardware when the bugs are smoothed out, there are games to play, and it'd likely be too late to complain.
It took a few years before I jumped in to the previous gen of systems, I expect this to be no different.
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:32 am |
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I think, on some level, I went PS4 because I know it'll get the kind of Japanese support the 'Bone won't
odds are, this will blow up in my face, 360-getting-every-Cave-port style
time to wait for that Phantom Breaker BattleGrounds sequel
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:38 am |
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| BenoitRen wrote: |
| I have no problem with your preference. My beef is DJ trolling by passing off his controversial opinion as fact (and then making an ass out of himself by attacking my personal situation). |
Aww, okay. Your "beef" is acknowledged: I'll switch it to "PC is indisputably the best for me personally but not BenRen who prefers the Wii, even taking emulation into account!" so nobody gets confused.
| Drem wrote: |
| PS4 does have HDCP but Sony said they are going to patch it out after people complained. |
Apparently they're patching MP3 and MP4 playback back in as well. And yeah, Sony's been weirdly upfront about "Okay we'll do this" when asked about stuff.
Also re: Xbone, Ars Technica and Kotaku both gave it pretty "meh" reviews, citing that Kinect doesn't work all that great, it assumes a pretty specific living room setup for TV/SPORTS to work correctly, and the games are pretty lackluster unless you've got Dead Rising 3.
Other places are being a little more generous, but it's floating at 8s and 7s.
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:23 am |
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The only thing that personally raises a red flag from the One reviews going online is that it doesn't passthrough surround sound from the HDMI in port, only stereo
how do you fuck that up, the fucking centerpiece of your multimedia functions
I'm quite literally mindboggled at the notion that surround sound from cable boxes (or, hell, a 360/PS3/PS4/better Blu-ray player) was either too hard or not important enough to make launch
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GcDiaz
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Clinton, MA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:35 am |
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No no no, it's a (beta) option you can enable.
What you cannot enable is Dolby 5.1...stereo or DTS, so your receiver better be fancy enough.
Still seems like an unfair point, tbh...I mean original 360 couldn't do 1080p until a system update made it happen. So I'm sure this stuff can be corrected later.
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LandRoverAttack
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Location: sagamihara, kanagawa
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:01 am |
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| notbov wrote: |
I think, on some level, I went PS4 because I know it'll get the kind of Japanese support the 'Bone won't
odds are, this will blow up in my face, 360-getting-every-Cave-port style
time to wait for that Phantom Breaker BattleGrounds sequel |
it's worth noting idolm@ster (btw I cry when I masturbate) is already announced for ps4 and not xbox, the original of which (along with other namco support) was probably the reason 360 had any traction with japanese exclusives
i used to look at the achievements of the people who were top on the leaderboards for 360 cave shmups and almost all of them had at least played idolm@ster (btw I cry when I masturbate) if not completed 1000p of it
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:54 pm |
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| GcDiaz wrote: |
No no no, it's a (beta) option you can enable.
What you cannot enable is Dolby 5.1...stereo or DTS, so your receiver better be fancy enough.
Still seems like an unfair point, tbh...I mean original 360 couldn't do 1080p until a system update made it happen. So I'm sure this stuff can be corrected later. |
It shouldn't be a beta option
the system shouldn't have to re-encode it into DTS
it should either pass the audio through or conform to whatever option is selected in the audio settings
like, it can't even do something that 4, 5, even 6-year old receivers can do. it just seems sloppy, I guess.
edit: oh, the HDMI in port doesn't have HDCP support. that's... odd.
or it does? different outlets getting differing results. hmph.
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Gironika
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Dragon Range
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:56 pm |
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| DJ wrote: |
| Apparently they're patching MP3 and MP4 playback back in as well. And yeah, Sony's been weirdly upfront about "Okay we'll do this" when asked about stuff. |
I think this "ok, we'll do this" attitude is the whole problem here atm … how on earth can they expect anyone to believe media center bs-blabbering when they are leaving out crucial functionality in a (futile? successful?) bid to hype locked down services?
Note that I was always adamant about how you can switch on a console, pop in a disc/cart and have a go at it, and several friends of mine love to make it a point how nowadays you basically can do that on the PC, with better res, same pad, less loading times, cracked no online-bs or system updates, sooo~~~ooo.
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A New Duck
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, ORLY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:57 pm |
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So the Xbox One controller looks like an improved Xbox 360 controller. Is it actually better? How's that d-pad? And will it play as friendly with PCs as its predecessor (hopefully able to be used just like one)?
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Pijaibros
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Casino Night Zone
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:26 pm |
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| From playing with it at Target. The d-pad is better. However, the triggers feel awful. I don't know about how it'd work with a PC since the logitech f310 and TE stick I currently use will likely last for a while. |
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BenoitRen
I bought RAM
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:25 pm |
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| DJ wrote: |
| Aww, okay. Your "beef" is acknowledged: I'll switch it to "PC is indisputably the best for me personally but not BenRen who prefers the Wii, even taking emulation into account!" so nobody gets confused. |
You dropped the PC master race act but you seem to be incapable of dropping the "lol wii" act.
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GrimmSweeper
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:49 am |
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It's more "lol BenRen" than anything, really.
I'm kind of with Gironika in that for all their touted "this will be your future media center" hype they haven't really served anything more than half-baked. |
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:51 am |
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| GrimmSweeper wrote: |
| It's more "lol BenRen" than anything, really. |
Yeah pretty much. For the record though: BenRen, I own a modded Wii and have for a while. In fact the only Nintendo console I don't own is a Wii U.
| Gironika wrote: |
Note that I was always adamant about how you can switch on a console, pop in a disc/cart and have a go at it, and several friends of mine love to make it a point how nowadays you basically can do that on the PC, with better res, same pad, less loading times, cracked no online-bs or system updates, sooo~~~ooo. |
Pretty much, just without the disc, which as someone who's had his entire game library stolen before, is something I am 100% OK with. Nobody can steal my Steam account. Worst case scenario is someone gets access to it and locks me out, in which case all I have to do to have access to it restored is to make a phone call.
Meanwhile I've got a box I can pipe games to my TV on just like a console. It plays a high percentage of modern games just like either given next-or-current-gen console. It uses any controller I want to plug into it with a USB connection or an adapter that costs like 5 bucks for classic ones. And, it has backwards compatibility all the way back to 1985 or so (admittedly with some fiddling), can emulate any console from the Wii/PS2 on back to the Atari 2600 except with better resolution (if I want), can play practically every arcade game in existence, and you can watch porn on it for free.
PS4's nice too though.
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LandRoverAttack
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Location: sagamihara, kanagawa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:04 am |
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do the ps4 or xbone let you use old fightsticks?
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:31 am |
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Xbone: no
PS4: yes, but the games have to be programmed to do so, like how Driveclub will support PS3 wheels because Evolution added support themselves
sadly, someone got a 360 fightstick to work on a debug unit during the Xbone tour demos and people got excited. nope, 200 bucks to Mad Catz please
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:37 pm |
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| DJ wrote: |
| (admittedly with some fiddling) |
The biggest mistake PC Gaming nerds make is underestimating the amount of fiddling (because they are used to doing it) and overestimating the amount of it most people are willing to put up with (which is nearly none). |
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Takashi
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:22 pm |
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| And that is the thing: for a lot of people out there, even that is too much work to just play a damn game. Having to worry about getting something to run "acceptably" is a foreign concept to people who aren't used to games doing anything other than just running. |
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:31 pm |
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| honestly, I feel like it's the sort of thing you have to enjoy rather than tolerate -- obviously, I'm at the far end of that camp (despite, or because of, almost always having solidly mid-end hardware), and I'm well aware of it. |
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Drem
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:43 pm |
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| One cool thing about the Xbox One is that it finally puts the Kinect's motors to use for something other than just calibration. When video chatting on Skype the camera can follow the speaker around the room and zoom in on the speaker's face. I wonder if games can control the Kinect's movement as well. |
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:03 pm |
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| Felix wrote: |
| honestly, I feel like it's the sort of thing you have to enjoy rather than tolerate -- obviously, I'm at the far end of that camp (despite, or because of, almost always having solidly mid-end hardware), and I'm well aware of it. |
oh yeah, definitely, and as someone who has played PC games for most of my life, i can fluctuate on how much i enjoy it. i mostly just bring it up to point out how much the PC gamers tend to underestimate the average person's distaste for it. |
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Takashi
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Drem
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: The Planet Bookshelves
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:10 pm |
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| Oh, huh. That's still pretty neat. So did they drop the auto-calibration from the original Kinect? |
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Pijaibros
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Casino Night Zone
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:36 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Felix wrote: |
| honestly, I feel like it's the sort of thing you have to enjoy rather than tolerate -- obviously, I'm at the far end of that camp (despite, or because of, almost always having solidly mid-end hardware), and I'm well aware of it. |
oh yeah, definitely, and as someone who has played PC games for most of my life, i can fluctuate on how much i enjoy it. i mostly just bring it up to point out how much the PC gamers tend to underestimate the average person's distaste for it. |
truly, my dayjob is messing around with computers all day. the last thing i want to do when i get home and want to unwind is futz with settings menus. it becomes less "customizing my experience" and just "getting them damn thing to cooperate". until i just give up and play super monkey ball instead. it's easy to think these people are large in number, but they're just a really loud, always connected minority (see neogaf).
and i put together a nice computer telling myself i would learn to enjoy this aspect of PC gaming (lol nope, still hate it).
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Glam Grimfire
Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Location: the funky western civilization
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:03 pm |
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as both a pc and a console gamer, i tend to enjoy how consoles can be quickly unhooked and set up at someone elses house
i had a really nice bag for my PS3 and i used to take that thing anytime i was going to someones house that was not mine/my parents and it generally meant fun times for everyone
i also really enjoy never having to worry about the idea of critical hardware failure on any of my consoles being irreplaceable or upwards of 300$ to replace like if my graphics card or motherboard die on me, which has happened before
i mean, pc master race people make me laugh and roll my eyes just as much people who think one console is legitimately better than the other simply on the grounds of what company makes it.
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:22 pm |
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- customizing AAA AA settings sliders is obviously not the highest form of futzing. I'm talking about debugging background layers in DKC using a SNES emulator for GBA (to offer one particularly weird example from my own experience). That's the sort of thing that, for me, maps onto enjoying PC stuff
- there hasn't been a good reason to spend >$150 on any given PC component in 15 years |
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:27 pm |
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| - super monkey ball is still one of my favorite games and I'm legitimately proud of unlocking the master levels so whatever |
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:49 pm |
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| Felix wrote: |
| - there hasn't been a good reason to spend >$150 on any given PC component in 15 years |
This is sound advice; personally speaking, my last GPU was in the ~$220 range a couple of years ago and the mostly sidegrade option from it is at least that much and a clear, tangible upgrade is in the $275+ range. This has a lot to do with why I went with a PS4 instead of a new GPU, since I'm already running most everything I want to play at 1080p at 60-100 fps. Maybe if I cop a nice 1440p monitor on the cheap...
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Pijaibros
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Casino Night Zone
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:36 pm |
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| Felix wrote: |
| - super monkey ball is still one of my favorite games and I'm legitimately proud of unlocking the master levels so whatever |
they are fantastic levels
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:03 pm |
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| notbov wrote: |
| Felix wrote: |
| - there hasn't been a good reason to spend >$150 on any given PC component in 15 years |
This is sound advice; personally speaking, my last GPU was in the ~$220 range a couple of years ago and the mostly sidegrade option from it is at least that much and a clear, tangible upgrade is in the $275+ range. This has a lot to do with why I went with a PS4 instead of a new GPU, since I'm already running most everything I want to play at 1080p at 60-100 fps. Maybe if I cop a nice 1440p monitor on the cheap... |
I'm still happily running a 9800GT, waiting to see whether the introduction of nVidia's Maxwell stuff drives the 760 (which I'd consider buying at this point) down to my acceptable price range by, say, next Xmas when I'm likely to need it for Witcher 3, or if the Maxwell stuff is actually a worthwhile upgrade in its own (the time is right, as the first set of mid-range of GPUs introduced after a new console generation is usually more than enough to ride out the whole generation), I'll probably end up with an 850 or 860 depending on whether one or the other of them seems too cut-down for the price point. |
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GcDiaz
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Clinton, MA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:45 pm |
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Witcher 3, now there's a game worth buying a console for. Precisely because no way am I spending the small fortune to build a rig worthy of it. I'll settle for no-hassle 720p if that's what it takes to enjoy it.
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Felix
unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:56 am |
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I'm going to keep up my usual shtick and point out that such a machine could be built for $600 (on the assumption that it gets a by-then high profile linux/steambox port and windows is not in the equation).
the $1-200 difference from current consoles is actually what I think it should be for a change (given labour differentials and what not) so hats off to the market |
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GcDiaz
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Clinton, MA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:37 am |
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Wait, do we even know what W3's recommended specs will be? I'm going off the fact that my current PC, which is more than sufficient to run anything on PS360, positively *crawls* if I try to run W2 at anything approaching "good" settings. So yes, I expect W3 to require a solid investment in new hardware, definitely more than a PS4 would cost.
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bza
a very bad gay
Joined: 24 Jul 2010
Location: A cave in a swamp somewhere
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:58 am |
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I built my PC a couple years ago for $600 and it ran The Witcher 2 just fine (before I upgraded the GPU) at 1080p and mostly 60 fps. The big performance drain is always anti-aliasing so I kept that off and left everything else at whatever it auto detected. After the upgrade I ran it with everything absolutely maxed, and the upgrade was ~$170 for a Radeon 7870 fancy whatever edition on sale. Not so sure I'll need to upgrade during this gen unless I do end up getting a super high res display. I'm pretty dang curious about how this Mantle thing is gonna pan out.
Maybe it's just the games I play, but I really haven't had to do any sort of fiddling lately at all. Most devs seem to be pretty good with the autodetection thing and I really can't be assed to run third party AA injectors. Warframe, Outlast, Path of Exile, and even ArmA 3 straight up had settings I didn't need to change at all upon first launch. There's also this AMD/Raptr thing that optimizes game settings based on other people's configs, and I think nvidia has one too! The age of futzing around before playing every PC game is hopefully over soon.
But... my TV is a POS and the only console I have is a Wii, where the worst of my problems was just setting the correct resolution. I totally understand why people buy consoles and I don't think it's dumb, but for real I've had more fun with the random weird free/cheap indie games for PC than most big titles in the past year or two. The PS4 and Xbone really don't interest me at all, and unless either gets a seriously killer exclusive lineup I'm sticking to Wii/3DS/PC mustard race. Maybe I'll become an idort and get a Vita if they get cheaper...
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:02 am |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| Felix wrote: |
| honestly, I feel like it's the sort of thing you have to enjoy rather than tolerate -- obviously, I'm at the far end of that camp (despite, or because of, almost always having solidly mid-end hardware), and I'm well aware of it. |
oh yeah, definitely, and as someone who has played PC games for most of my life, i can fluctuate on how much i enjoy it. i mostly just bring it up to point out how much the PC gamers tend to underestimate the average person's distaste for it. |
I'm gonna stick to my point of "it doesn't require much fiddling" and will counter that the "but I hate messing with stuff in PCs it's too draining and frustrating" doesn't really have much to do with modern-day PC gaming and honestly hasn't for about 5 years now if not more.
I said some in order to run really old games. It's possible to do, was my point. You put an Xbox Fat game in an Xbone and it's going to cough up an error message and that's that; with a PC, if you want, you can run extremely old games quite well. This isn't an option on non-hacked consoles, and at that point we're talking about hacking a console. Even softmodding a Wii is more tech-intensive than messing with settings in any given modern game by quite a bit.
But for the sake of argument let's assume you don't particularly give a shit about getting that original Magic Carpet 2 CD running on a Windows 8 machine and really just want to stick with modern games. At this point fiddling goes down to pretty much zero, especially if you have an nVidia card which has software which will straight up read your system's specs and adjust the settings for you automatically based on what it sees. We're talking all the difficulty of Click on game in Steam and hit Play. At worst, you might have to change the resolution to whatever your monitor is once in a while; if you've ever managed to put a hyperlink into some text on a forum post, congratulations you've performed a more technically intensive task than that.
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notbov
Joined: 14 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:27 am |
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Speaking as someone part of the idort master race (prior to the Bone's release an hour ago, the only current-ish thing I didn't have is a 3DS), let me say two things:
1. Don't do it
2. I need a real hobby
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CONSUME_PRODUCTS
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:20 pm |
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as someone who worked as a linux janitor for years & was seriously enamoured with 90s pc gaming (quakeworld and coffee on way too many schoolnights) i cannot be fucked in the slightest anymore
having to deal with a windows install and picking parts and all that stuff is just ugh & makes me think of smug reddit creatures
plus you have a web browser and im and other vastly more compelling activities within immediate reach on any kind of computer |
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GcDiaz
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Clinton, MA
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:20 pm |
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DJ, it's like you don't even read what people say, and expect them to somehow prioritize your opinion over their own experiences, so i dunno, maybe don't be such a MASTER RACE dick about things ("oh hey, i am going to ignore what you said and just reiterate my point, the one you already addressed, instead of conitnuing the conversation WHEEEE!!!") especially to someone else who generally plays PC games but was just trying to explain why people don't like them?
also, yeah, i have spent a lot of time fiddling with settings in a lot of games, and man, sometimes it is nice to boot up something and not worry about key assignments of video resolution or AA settings or any of that. i mean, shit, congrats on being the one dude to get ffxiv running at max settings with no fiddling, but me (and a lot of the people playing the game, it would seem), I am still trying to figure out how to make it run at the best framerate with the best settings without running a separate piece of software to do it. |
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A New Duck
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Eugene, ORLY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:26 pm |
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I came to like PC gaming a lot more when I got an Xbox 360 controller and an HDMI out port on my laptop.
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boojiboy7
narcissistic irony-laden twat
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: take me on a blatant doom trip.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:44 pm |
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| Yeah, there is plenty I like about PC gaming. Heck, I even like that I have the options to fiddle with, provided i don't have to spend too much time with them. My only point originally is that some people don't want to fiddle at all, and PCs will forever require more fiddling than they want (even just using a mouse and keyboard as an interface could fit into this for them) and so consoles will have a market. |
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