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Just one example of why Chrono Cross has best NPC dialogue

 
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:35 am        Reply with quote

I have nothing to say about Chrono Cross, because I never played it. One of the main reveals was spoiled for me, which soured me on playing the game. Too bad, because I spent months drooling over character art.

Squaresoft pretty much had the lock-down on Japanese style RPGs. I personally didn't play many non-squaresoft Japanese style RPGs that had nearly as interesting world building, besides Legend of Legia. Even that, I mostly played just because I was addicted to videogames back then. PSM always stroked Legend of Dragoon, but I never got around to that one.

No way, FF9 is worse off than 8 is.

8 and 9 both have the same fundamental problem (even though I still think pretty highly of 8) in that about 2/3 of the way through, they just blatantly jump shark. All of a sudden, 9 becomes a dime-a-dozen anime. it's really dumb. But it's played up as this big important dramatic thing that you have to take care of. There just wasn't any setup or support work layed for those huge tonal shifts. 8 does something similar. But it is less glaring.
8 actually basically ends about 2/3 of the way through. Things come full circle for the characters. But there's still another act, for some reason. I think more highly of 8, because it doesn't completely shove aside the detailed mythos and non-typical fantasy that is built in the first two thirds of FF8. and that first two thirds feels fresh and original. Whereas FF9 was pretty much founded on hitting tropes and recalling things already done. 9 mostly rides on the richness of Amano's art, but is otherwise only a competent game and does little to be particularly interesting. 8 has straight up better gameplay and better sidequests. It also kinda sorta attempts to setup the new act in a vaguely compelling way, even if it does fail. Whereas 9 felt like more of a jolting transition. I realize that could be more of a personal opinion there.

Being an anime is fine. I mean, you can be an anime the entire time and still be good. 7 is an anime from the beginning and the end game escalation is about as anime as it gets. Xenogears is also an anime (although I feel like Xenogears is more akin to older anime). But they start that way. The tone is set. and if/when they do diverge, it's not resetting the whole game. It's for short segments that are worked into the story and that often actually make the game better/more fun/more interesting/etc. But I still feel that 8 has more and greater successes than 9. So the failures don't seem so damning, even if they aren't actually handled slightly better.
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:23 pm        Reply with quote

Amano's artwork was basically the only character art I ever saw for the game, aside from CG renders or high res versions of in-game models. I assumed he had designed the characters and I specifically remember him getting street cred for returning to Final Fantasy and designing 9's characters.
I didn't realize square would have one guy design characters and another re-draw them for the character art, and yet more people re-do them as in-game models and CG. I always thought it was just one guy drawing the character art/designing them. and then a team would interpret that into polygonal and CG models.






http://fantasyanime.com/finalfantasy/ff9/ff9art2.htm
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:27 pm        Reply with quote

Sorry about derailing your Chrono Cross thread : \
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:28 pm        Reply with quote

I did a little research and it seems like Amano was likely commissioned to juice up the retro/revival angle for FFIX. A couple of places give him a character design credit for IX as well. But It seems to me like that's maybe not exactly true, or maybe he designed one or two characters but wasn't the lead character designer. I dunno.

He's also been comissioned to do artwork for other final fantasies like X and VIII, as you said. But I think those were mostly for collectors books and stuff. Not part of the marketing push, like it was with IX. I didn't even know he'd done artwork based on VII and VIII, until like 30 minutes ago. (aside from indirectly figuring that he did the logos).
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:06 am        Reply with quote

Man, Xenogears does a pretty good job of infusing gritty religious tones into it's story and doing some good-weird things with it, without actually ramming the religion itself down your throat. It may not have had a really strongly coherent main story arch---but I don't think that's absolutely necessary.


Whereas FFX doesn't ever shut up about Yevon and I wanted to choke everyone. I think somewhere in there might be the difference between old anime and new anime.
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:47 pm        Reply with quote

Gironika wrote:
DJ wrote:
The closest you could get to this long, sweeping opening was something like the intro to Final Fantasy VI, with the magitek armor walking in a Mode 7 snowstorm towards Narche while Terra's theme played and the opening credits rolled. And that was enormously technically expensive for an RPG on the SNES. You had 3.2MB of space to work with. That's it! Think about that: That entire game is smaller than some pictures on Wikipedia now. 3.2MB is nothing. And yet, in 1994, that was a fuckton of space to fit on a cartridge. It was expensive both in the tech sense and in the literal economic sense. And for all that time and money and effort and careful programming and advances in graphics and blah blah blah blah the most you were getting out of it was this.

On the other end of the scale, there's this: 35ish seconds to set up … to … well, they sure had fun, I guess.


What, the intro for FF6 is awesome. and so is the initial battle/story sequence. FF7 was similarly effective.
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Toptube
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:29 pm        Reply with quote

Gironika wrote:
Toptube wrote:
What, the intro for FF6 is awesome. and so is the initial battle/story sequence. FF7 was similarly effective.

Yeah, I'm with you on FF6-side here. On FF7 - not so much, but this might be due to me playing it in 2004ish.
FF6 managed to impress on a technical level (as mentioned above/before) and, at least for me, for being different to what the other FFes do/did.


what's great about both of them is that it's not just a big huge showey intro cinematic. and they both don't grind to a halt after an intro cinematic, by info dumping, or anything like that.

Instead, you get neat, brief technical showcase that also intros the visual aesthetic and tone and actually has something to do with what you are about to play----and then that intro bit segues into what you play. You are dropped into a scenario that has already started. You the player come in somewhere along the way and pick things up as they happen. A running start. and it's all fed to you in a way that you can pretty quickly piece together what is happening.

FF8 starts out with this big showey, beatiful intro----and then you are sitting in class, reading text boxes. I'm totally fine that the first thing you play to setup a school atmosphere---is a classroom scenario. But that big showey intro kinda set me up for something else.

12 tried to kinda do what 6 and 7 did. But it wasn't as tight and the intro cinematic was still a bit too indirectly related. By that I mean you watch a big eventful intro video and have no idea who the people are or otherwise have any attachment. And then when you get to play, you have no idea who you are playing as or what they are doing. and it takes way too long for you to find out what it all has to do with that big intro video. It's not quite as bad as I make it sound. But the problems are there.

I can't even remember how 10 started, exactly. But I'm sure it was probably some big thing about Sin attacking and then when you actually play it's just an info dump on what the heck did I just watch?

As much as I love Xenogears and as awesomely produced as the intro cinematic is--------you don't find out what any of it means for like 3/4 of the game! If I hadn't started a new game 27 times to re-watch that awesome intro, I'd probably have forgotten all about it and maybe missed the waaaaay late connections to it in the game.
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