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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: Seek greater souls: Dark Souls 2 Blindplay Thread |
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Here is the requested Dark Souls II blindplay thread.
No spoilers. No pro strats. No metagame.
Start fresh, and post impressions/questions/fustrations/etc. but please keep anything too spoilery under tags.
Good luck...
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Last edited by DJ on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:30 am |
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Yeah the PS3 servers do not appear to be up. Not sure what's up with that. Lemme, uh, make a phone call actually.
I'm sure it'll be up shortly, either way.
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:28 pm |
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This could probably be considered minorly spoilery (although also pretty obvious), so
Re: Torches: They are useful for more than just the light they provide
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:25 pm |
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| scratchmonkey wrote: |
Lolololol.
I uh, can't figure out how to equip my torch. It's sitting there in the equipment screen with a five-minute timer (I assume); it doesn't show up when I'm trying to put stuff in my slots (pause). |
For those wondering about how to use the torch:
Go up to a bonfire/lit torch, hit Triangle/Y
It's not a discrete equipable inventory item
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:00 pm |
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| mauve wrote: |
also, BotageL: You can't two-hand a weapon and then pull your torch back out anymore. Not that it seems to even matter, wtf happened to the lighting From... |
- You're still gonna need the torch, just not..."yet", I guess. They're not "useless" as a couple reviews claimed, though. I have serious doubts that whoever wrote that actually completed the game.
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DJ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:27 am |
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Maybe I should hop on this for PS3. Gonna see about joining a covenant, either -Blue Sentinels or Sunbros -- proooobably Sunbros
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:07 am |
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So is this like a metaphor for something, or are you actually talking about how comfortable something looks to wear?
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:08 am |
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| BotageL wrote: |
The Tower Apart:
Hahahahaha, you bastards. That... that's how you escalate! |
Did you pick a fight with The Lost Sinner?
If so...Theories?
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DJ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:52 am |
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Kind of amazed at the number of people missing the Emerald Herald, not gonna lie. I thought you dudes were all about exploration and the soaking up of atmosphere and whatnot.
I mean I know she's standing off by the tree and it's kinda out of the way but dang.
Did everyone miss the cat, too?
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DJ
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:06 pm |
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Vague Protip for No-Man's Wharf: Look around outside the houses carefully. Also, look up.
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:29 am |
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HOW ARE YOU ALL MISSING THE EMERALD HERALD SHE'S RIGHT THERE ;_;
Spoiler time: If you're missing her, that...Super doesn't bode well for later in the game. There's a lot of off-the-beaten-path-but-still-very-important NPCs. I guess my best advice is, if you suddenly find yourself with "nowhere left to go", you done missed some people and they are in waaaay less obvious places than the E.H. is. Explore. Check everywhere. Talk (as in actually use the Talk option) to everyone. Multiple times. Not that there are any cutscenes to skip really, but if you miss stuff in this game because you rush or don't care or lol videogames or whatever, they aren't shy about just leaving you to rot because of it.
If anything I'd say the fact that she isn't standing front and center in Majula is a big tipoff that this game isn't gonnna breadcrumb you anywhere. Take it as a gentle warning.
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DJ
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:38 am |
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She's over by the tree if you haven't spoken to her. Once you have she will be in various spots around the bonfire, yes, but she generally won't be as far away from it after that.
*cough* generally
The cat moves around too.
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DJ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:13 am |
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| analogos wrote: |
| lost sinner |
is a she
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:06 pm |
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This thread is terribly amusing for me to read (in a truly good way) I'll just have you guys know. I never got to see the full completed game for the first time (my first exposure was long ago and in pieces), so living vicariously over here.
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:52 am |
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| Relevant wrote: |
Re: Looking Glass Knight: The Mirror Knight aka The Looking Glass Knight was a disappointment I fought him three times but he never summoned another player just a npc.
From DJ: I added spoiler tags to this. |
Massive spoiler regarding this, so don't read if you don't want, but: Player summons are a NG+ and beyond mechanic. Both for being summoned and having a summon show up.
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DJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:34 am |
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I'm seriously keeping score now w.r.t. the number of people who straight up missed E.H.
EXPLORE YOU FOOLS I mean this in a nice way
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DJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:11 am |
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lol
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:18 am |
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To clarify that lol: I, uh, actually finished describing that post to someone else about 30 minutes ago and said you were probably going to be the one to make it, Apol. And, uh, here we are! I actually did laugh out loud when I saw that, not because "HA HA FUCK YOUR OPINION" but "Neat I have supernatural internet prescience apparently."
The way I couched it was, a bunch of people liked Demon's more than Dark 1. We're gonna have people who like Dark 1 more than Dark 2 for what are very likely to be the same reasons, and then I ticked a bunch of them off (combat's different, humanity's different, covenants are different, area flow's different) and basically anyone who wore Dark Souls 1 like a glove is probably going to chafe at these changes, whereas people who weren't licking every seam of that game will probably fare better -- same as Demon's to Dark 1. The folks who Platinumed Demon's with both versions on multiple consoles and sank thousands of hours into it (there are relatively few of these people) are actually pretty lukewarm on Dark Souls 1!
And the conversation was basically:
"So someone on SB is gonna do the Dark 2 sucks compared to Dark 1 because I'm way more comfortable in Dark 1 argument?"
"Probably, yeah, it's kind of a given."
"Who do you think will be first?"
"Apol probably. Dude played a lot of Dark 1 PvP, and that's probably gonna hit the hardest. I think he was the deepest into it so it'll probably irritate him worse than other people."
Welp.
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DJ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:28 pm |
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| Felix wrote: |
| DJ wrote: |
| The folks who Platinumed Demon's with both versions on multiple consoles and sank thousands of hours into it (there are relatively few of these people) are actually pretty lukewarm on Dark Souls 1! |
y'know if you want to play the "six of one, half dozen of the next" card instead of engaging in an actual comparative discussion you shouldn't give the impression that demon's came out for more than one platform |
There's two version of Demon's (actually three) but I'll give you the multiple consoles thing was a weird turn of phrase. I was thinking of the people who bought Asian Demon's then US Demon's when it came out.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:35 pm |
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| Mr. Apol wrote: |
the problem i'm having is that dark souls 2 does not have the same level of aesthetics, level design, enemy design, and writing as the previous two games in the series. i know i did a lot of pvp, but that's not the only reason i played souls games. shit, as Actual Competitive Games, demon's and dark souls are kind of terrible.
some specific level design issues have been brought up by other people and me in the previous post, but i'll repeat a bit of it. most of the levels don't feel nearly as intricate and interesting as the areas in dark souls. the closest level to get that ideal so far has been no-man's wharf. i like the light mechanic keeping the bleed goblins at bay. i like that you can sort of make your way through the level in a free-form manner instead of it being the corridor and room approach of most of the other areas.
about the enemy design: did the enemy design budget just get destroyed or something? i feel like every single area so far has been like 90% humanoids, and most of them the same zombies i've been fighting since the beginning. there are zombies that spit poison, zombies that hit you with swords, zombies in armor, zombies that jump on you and blow up, big zombies with scythes, viking zombies, etc. maybe i'm just rose-coloring hard here, but i remember dark souls having a pretty wide variety of monsters. just thinking about blighttown in particular - you had zombie guys, sure, but also giant mosquitoes, weird ass flame shooting spider dudes, hellhouds, and giant leeches. the dark souls 2 equivalent has zombies (and not an interesting, unique design like in dark souls, but just literally a green dead guy) and big muscle dogs (that i'm pretty sure reuse the giant skeleton dog animations). and poison spitting statues i guess. it seems like i've been fighting primarily the same monsters since the first area, and it's getting really, really boring. |
Hm.
Best I can really do is offer personal opinions. I've got zero idea why From made the decisions they did (not that I could say even if I knew, but for real, I have no idea).
The best advice I can offer to this is, keep playing. Especially as far as writing and lore goes. There is a lot in there and while is going to sound odd to say, it's significantly better hidden than it was in Dark Souls 1.
Dark Souls 1 was obtuse by way of omission more than anything else. The plot is pretty standard Prometheus stuff. I know I'm simplifying enormously by condensing it to one sentence, but really half of any given Splinter Cell game has more plot complexity than the entirety of Dark Souls 1. What made the plot to Dark Souls 1 interesting was how little it set right out there and how much it left for the player to discover for themselves, which is really something of a lost art among games these days and it was lovely to see.
So here's the thing: Dark Souls 2 has quite a bit more plot in it than Dark Souls 1 does, and it's even less forthcoming with it. Dark Souls 1 took quite a while to cough up its secrets, and really those weren't secrets so much as just a bunch of dots left out in the open that you had to connect; Dark Souls 2, they're straight up hidden. It is going to be a while before anyone really susses out what this game is doing. In my brief checks on Reddit, 4Chan, NeoGaf, the Wikis, and Here, nobody has even come close to figuring it out yet. I have no doubt that they will, but I think it will be a while before anyone really puts it together. Most people are still peeling away the first layer of the onion, which certainly isn't as appealing a layer as a similar one from Dark Souls 1 was, I'll admit. There are a lot more layers, though.
Vaati got a pretty good idea of it (from me, actually) and I'd imagine he's going to cough up some interesting videos about it eventually.
So yeah, with the writing and plot stuff, just...give it time.
As for enemy design yeah dude your guess is as good as mine. I was actually wondering why they went back to mostly humanoid enemies myself.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:39 pm |
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| Relevant wrote: |
Hooray I beat the game. Look forward to the lovely credits music.
Questions and comments for DJ or whomever regarding end game/newgame+
*Does the game have more than one ending? |
No Comment.
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| Earlier DJ mentioned that the mirror knight can summon other players in newgame+ are their any other new mechanics? |
Yes.
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| How many blacksmiths are there I only found two |
There's more.
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| The Ancient Dragon boss is a real bitch contrary to popular belief lightning is not effective. |
It totally is, but positioning matters a lot more. Check his patterns and try different stuff.
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| Is it possible to kill the King in the crypt? |
Yes.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:46 pm |
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| Felix wrote: |
| DJ thanks for actively conceding some negative points, I was getting afraid you were real defensive of some aspects of this game that you logically had little to do with |
Oh Jesus no. I mean if you want my negatives list, here's some of it:
First off: Enemies are far, far more boring than Dark 1 or Demon's. I think this is pretty blatant.
Second: Levels lack coherence from Dark 1 (I think everyone's touched on this) and they're less complicated outside of a few of them (ditto) and they're just less interesting overall, outside of a few standout areas. Nothing quite has the grandeur of Anor Londo or Ash Lake, in my opinion, and the world as a whole feels a lot more videogamey.
Also...It's easier. I don't wanna be that guy who harps on the difficulty to show how tough I am or whatever but honestly by the time you're 66% of the way through the game, the rest of it becomes a total cakewalk and I wish they'd upped the danger level. Dark Souls 1 suffered from this problem as well but it's worse in Dark 2, not better, to the point where it honestly kinda bugs me.
One thing I'm not gonna concede is that the Lore is Worse, because it absolutely 100% is not, but like I said, I definitely have privileged information there and I honestly think the game is designed in such a way as to make it quite a bit harder to actually figure out what's going on than Dark Souls 1 did.
Dark Souls 1 is a flashbang grenade vs. Dark Souls 2's candlelight in terms of plot subtlety, and I think a lot of the more hidden plot stuff is getting lost in the trample to just finish the game right now. Which was probably intentional.
What I try to avoid is binary statements, i.e. This was Amazing in Dark 1 and Sucks in Dark 2. I prefer the level design in Dark 1, but I'm not gonna say the level design in Dark 2 is bad because it isn't. When you finally get to see the whole map and all that it's actually quite well laid out, just not quite as brilliantly as Dark 1.
I will agree this game is really a halfway point between Demon's and Dark 1, for better or worse. It's a step forward as much as it's a step back, and while I like the result, there's still some stuff I wish they'd kept from Dark 1.
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DJ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:25 am |
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do you guys want to know or want to figure it out
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:04 am |
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Eh someone will figure it out soon enough.
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DJ
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:24 pm |
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| Kinto wrote: |
| Well then I dunno 8-) Deej, is it something we can find out from some NPC or something? Cause otherwise it's pretty funny that they've made such a core mechanic so inaccessible when they specifically set out not to. |
It's hardly a "core" mechanic, it's just a neat bonus that's there to make people go "Hey I'm human again neato" sometimes.
Anyway: For certain "main" bosses, successfully killing the boss as a co-op phantom will do the following:
1. Up your humanity by one notch, so if you just recently died and lost your human form, you will regain it, otherwise you will gain one "step" back to being human. If you died twice, you'll need to be a summoned phantom (and, again, win) twice to get your humanity back. Scale this as appropriate. Note that if you're pretty deep in the dead zone, this isn't a great way to try to regain your human form.
2. Repair all your items.
3. Refill your estus flasks.
This will not happen on all bosses, but for example if you really want to sit there and farm The Sinner in co-op to gain your humanity back, go for it.
EXTRA DOUBLE SPOILER regarding potentially running out of Humanity, which is sort of related:
Actually running out of humanity 100% and being stuck as hollow forever is actually quite difficult to do. There are several failsafes in place to prevent this, although it's still possible if you're ridiculously liberal with your Human Effigy use. However, I won't go too much detail into this as it's kind of neat. Just be aware that it's pretty hard to get "stuck". There are hidden but viable ways back to humanity, so worry not.
Apol hit on the right idea though, the Ring of Soul Protection is set at a fairly low repair rate for a reason: it essentially replaces the Endgame Humanity Farming from DS1. Human Effigies cost 1,500-3,000 souls each, and there's a few vendors who sell quite a few of them; The Ring of Soul Protection costs 3,000 to repair (double if you have the petrification one) so when you get to a point in the game where 3,000 souls is fairly trivial, then it makes more sense to just rely on the rings.
The downside to this is you have to sacrifice a ring slot to do it (which is kind of a big deal, particularly later in the game) and it isn't failproof, as some people are probably going to find out the fun way.
Also, before anyone complains that this is totally game breaking: There are mechanics later than are only (realistically) possible using this ring, so there's another layer of the onion to peel back when people get there.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:36 pm |
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All this stuff is in the guide for what that's worth, but I guess we can use spoiler tags, etc.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:38 pm |
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| mauve wrote: |
| but rather than talk about progression, there's something else on my mind. in the shaded ruins, i bumped into an old man npc hanging out in a cave, talking about the Dark. specifically, he said I wasn't with the Dark enough yet. does the true Darkwraith covenant start here? And if so, how do I make myself Dark? do I go invading with my cracked red eyes)? |
It begins...
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:01 am |
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| sponkmonkey wrote: |
| Where are the binoculars? |
In Majula.
More specifically: When you first come out of Things Betwixt, look to your right. There's a small section of the cliff missing a fence. Look down, drop down on the one that looks safe, follow the path.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:04 am |
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| Felix wrote: |
| I found the same guy mauve is describing, but not in the shaded ruins... |
Shutting up now because there is now plenty to go on.
For the love of god do not ask the internet anything further unless you are really stumped.
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DJ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:03 am |
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In regards to stats, minor spoiler: You can respec your stats without restarting your character.
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DJ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:04 am |
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Also uh, if people want me to shut up feel free to tell me, I won't take it personally. I'm doling out little bits of info here but I'm trying my best to both spoiler tag it and leave it open to some interpretation where possible. Not sure how much I'm succeeding at this.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:08 am |
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Talk to all the merchants. Until they start repeating themselves. That "Gathering of Exiles" trophy is there for reason!
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:49 pm |
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I will stop munching popcorn over here for some minor spoilery bits regarding where some of you are headed, and some (very broad) advice before you go there. All this is freely available in guides on the internet, but if you want a less spoilery, more personable trail of smaller breadcrumbs to follow, here you go:
If you have made it to Drangleic Castle, congratulations! Also, less congratulations because the game isn't even close to over yet as you will gloriously discover in a bit. You've made very good headway though, so kudos.
The area you are headed to next is called the Shrine of Amana, or as we called it, "Hellfuck Killshitter Bastard Asshole Lake", which is something I desperately wanted as an area titlecard but they wouldn't let me. :(
It is here that I would like to point out some of the off-the-beaten-path little secrets to keep an eye out for, as this is the point where the game begins to twist inward on itself a bit. The assumption is that by the time you've gotten here, you're "comfortable". You're no longer flailing around the world like a lost, beaten puppy. You've got some confidence. You welcome invasions. You're beginning to grasp what the lore is, maybe, and how it relates to the 'Souls (and beyond) series as a whole.
So it's worth pointing out that you probably missed a bunch of stuff. Shrine of Amana is a good turn-back point, because both figuratively and somewhat literally you are going to be more funneled from this point out, and there's some things you may want to clear up beforehand.
You won't be locked out or anything, don't worry. But here's some things to consider:
Did you:
-- Figure out what the Iron Key is used for?
-- Use the Soldier's Key on every door that can be opened with it (and if so, figure out what that thing in the basement does? "Rests in peace..."?
-- Find both Belltowers and both Rat Warrens?
-- Meet an old friend in the Doors of Pharros?
-- Figure out why Freja didn't drop a great soul, but instead left it lying on the ground?
-- Get Carhillion, Cale, Gilligan, Licia, Rosabeth, and Melentia all to move to Majula?
-- Find Vengarl's head?
-- Find where Benhart wandered off to?
-- Find Lucatiel in all four places she can be found?
-- Keep talking to Shalquoir as she begins to reveal more and more information?
-- Where else is Grahndal? (Old man in wheelchair)
-- Buy a bunch of stuff from Maughlin and see what happens?
-- Look in the basement of the mansion in Majula? There's something down there, and I don't mean the skeleton...
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:11 pm |
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| ChairTax wrote: |
| Somewhat big spoiler thoughts but: I'm assuming that King Vendrick is the Chosen Undead from Dark Souls? Hence the references to the Four Great Ones? Not sure how the Milfenito play into this, but it seems logical that the Chosen Undead would have an affinity for song, esp. when the Milfenito's purpose is to soothe those souls of the dead and weary. |
I could answer this, but I won't, at least not directly, because it's much more interesting (and, I feel, important) for people to organically put it together. Suffice to say there's some colossal lore at work here that lays out a shockingly comprehensive map of just what is going on with this world.
In true 'Souls fashion however, it's not like a big plot-twist "gimme" moment where suddenly a Deus Ex Machina puzzle piece drops into place and suddenly the whole thing makes sense. Rather, there's a ton of disparate puzzle pieces scattered about this game and while finding them all and taking note of them is a challenge in and of itself, the real prize is when you figure out what connects to other parts of Dark 2, which connect to Dark 1, and which connect to something else.
Here's an indirect answer to your question though. Less of an answer, but more of a finger point: Go back to Vendrick's Tomb and look at it. Look off into the distance. Look how many of those things there are.
Slightly more direct spoiler: This is the king(s) tomb. It has been here a long, long, long time.
Your theory is a sound one, but there's more to it. That little gesture there should set you on the path to truth. Hope it helps!
Amusing aside: I told Vaati exactly what the significance of all this was, and let him tie it together. I didn't tell him everything, but I told him quite a bit. The look on his face was absolutely priceless and I wish I'd thought to snap a quick picture of it.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:20 pm |
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Also: Did anyone figure out how to get McDuff to move off the treasure chest he's sitting on?
Hint: As he may have inferred, he really likes flame.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:24 pm |
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| remote wrote: |
| every door in that room was open, |
Bwaaaahahahahaaaaaa I love that part. Such a dick move.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:30 pm |
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Oh right, forgot to add this to the "Give these a deeper look" list:
- I'm assuming some people have met Tark by now. If so, you may have tried to talk to him if you didn't attack him right away. If you tried to talk to him, you may have gotten a response that seems like a dead end. Unless you've played Dark Souls 1. In which case this should seem terribly familiar. You should be able to take it from there.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:38 pm |
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To be quite honest, you gotta dig pretty fuckin' deep to get the answers to that one.
Uh. Literally, now that I think about it.
Well I guess you don't really dig, but whatever you get the idea.
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Last edited by DJ on Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:40 pm |
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Yeah I edited that too late.
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:55 pm |
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| rye wrote: |
| who is apparently a she, according to flavor text on the boss soul drop? |
*COUGH*
Hey lore heads, think about this.
Consider: Female. Did something bad in the past that she punishes herself for. Has a lord soul.
I honestly thought more people would've put this together by now.
I guess it gets more obvious in NG+. Anyone killed her in NG+ yet?
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DJ
Shaman Analyst
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:31 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| Eh, alpha and beta versions of all games are full of glitches like that, looks like a couple of the rarer ones slipped through testing here. (I haven't seen such a bug yet.) I'm sure DJ is taking this as a personal failure :) |
Possibly, but...What he's looking at there is failing VRAM, from the look of it? I dunno if that's the game. 'Cause yeah, jeez. The only place I've ever seen that is in World of Warcraft when my GPU was about to shit the bed.
Is it reproducible? If so, could you tell me how?
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