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Antiquated Game Player

 
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:28 am    Post subject: Antiquated Game Player    Reply with quote

So, I decided to make a magazine. I'm doing it mostly for fun but I hope someone else gets some enjoyment out of it. I just released my first issue, the theme of which is Computers and Dragons. I mostly discuss D&D and computer games. In future issues I hope to cover simulations and other such things.

You can grab a free PDF at magcloud. Print version is $7.50.



Here's the blurb:
Quote:
Antiquated Game Player is a magazine for the old school game player of both electronic and paper-based games. Journey back to a time when games were made to target niche audiences: role players, history buffs, wargamers, trekkies, and various other minorities. Featuring game reviews, genre surveys, historical explorations, game design analysis, and more, Antiquated Game Player is your source for in depth coverage of the past you long for or perhaps never got to experience!


And here's a quick preview:




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The Blueberry Hill



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Location: The otherwise central zone.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:51 am        Reply with quote

Is there a way to get the PDF without registering for some jerk website?

I like the map cover.
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Laurel Soup



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Hitsville, USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:59 am        Reply with quote

I'm getting a major Role of Computers from Dragon Magazine vibe from the review section.
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T.



Joined: 11 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:22 am        Reply with quote

this is very good. looks nice, well written. i could maybe help fill in the taxonomy at some point
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tacotaskforce



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Logical, Practical

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:51 am        Reply with quote

That cover looks really familiar. Is that the first level of Dark Spire?
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Persona mobile



Joined: 11 Aug 2012

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:20 am        Reply with quote

This is awesome! I love seeing more people making zines! Good luck with this!
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:49 am        Reply with quote

I love this and it fits into my areas of expertise so if you ever need someone to write something about dungeons I'll do it.
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:57 am        Reply with quote

I actually believe Arneson's blackmoor campaign is well documented in places

While not part of the original Lake Geneva set of roleplayers, M.A.R. Barker's notes on his Tekumel setting is both well preserved and started in 1974, coinciding with the earliest days of DnD.

So if you want to dive headlong into one of the most interesting corners of the olden days of RPGs, go with that.
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:17 am        Reply with quote

I was correct about Blackmoor, all the earliest notes (1972 onward) on the campaign were anthologized and published in 1977's The First Fantasy Campaign which should be possible to find even today

if I happen to find a pdf of it, I'll upload it to this thread.

edit: I found the pdf, reading it now and it is solid gold for the ten people in the world that care about the earliest days of the hobby. I'll upload it tomorrow.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:05 pm        Reply with quote

Thanks for the positive words guys! I really feared that no one would care at all, so I'm glad that at least a handful of my SBros seem to like it!

Tulpa, have you read Jon Peterson's Playing at the World? That is where I got my info on the Blackmoor campaign. I had heard about The First Fantasy Campaign but didn't realize it was a collection of the original materials. That sounds very interesting indeed.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:11 pm        Reply with quote

Laurel Soup wrote:
I'm getting a major Role of Computers from Dragon Magazine vibe from the review section.


Haha, yes, this is exactly what I was shooting for. The Role of Computers was my introduction to electronic games when I was a wee lad.

tacotaskforce wrote:
That cover looks really familiar. Is that the first level of Dark Spire?


It is the first level of Dargoth's Tower from The Bard's Tale II. It has been touched up a bit though.

I'll work on getting a PDF on my web host for anyone who doesn't want to register on magcloud. I probably should be able to get to it tonight.
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Wall of Beef



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My new magazine Antiquated Game Player    Reply with quote

jjsimpso wrote:
So, I decided to make a magazine ...

You can grab a free PDF at magcloud. Print version is $7.50.


Print version ordered. Looks great!

Is this "MagCloud" a pretty good tool?
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: My new magazine Antiquated Game Player    Reply with quote

Wall of Beef wrote:
Print version ordered. Looks great!

Is this "MagCloud" a pretty good tool?


Thanks! I think you're the first print sell!

Magcloud seems pretty good. They don't offer a lot of tools for actually producing your content other than some templates and suggestions though. But without any previous experience with desktop publishing or page layout, I was able to get started by using their templates and basic guidelines. All you have to do is produce a properly formatted pdf, then you can create a publication on their site and upload it. They'll do some basic error checking and from there you can preview it, order proofs, and re-upload until you're happy with it. After that you can set the sell price and use their tools to track sales and help promote your pub on social media.
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Wall of Beef



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:29 pm        Reply with quote

If I made something and wanted printed copies to sell myself at a show or something, could I order a bunch at production cost or would it just be the "cover" price?

Do they own any rights to the content when you publish with the service?
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:15 pm        Reply with quote

You can create documents and keep them unlisted so that they aren't public. From there you can print copies for your personal use as needed. You can order at production price and get a bulk discount of -- I believe -- 20 or 25 percent if you order 20 or more.

On the question of rights, the author retains intellectual property rights but gives Magcloud a non-exclusive license to use the content for its own purposes(promotion of its service, etc.). More here: http://www.magcloud.com/home/PublicationTerms.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:57 pm        Reply with quote

The Blueberry Hill wrote:
Is there a way to get the PDF without registering for some jerk website?


Direct link to pdf.

Tulpa, since you are interested, I may someday ask you to write something. I'll see how Volume II is coming along before I do that, though.

T., I think filling out the taxonomy would be an interesting project. We may have to investigate.
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:22 pm        Reply with quote

I suppose this is covered by the proviso that dungeon crawlers are necessarily RPGs, but I've always found it interesting that there's so much crossover between IF and adventure games and tabletop RPGs and more properly defined dungeon crawls.

IF's earliest works, Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, etc are very indebted to fighting fantasy style gamebooks in particular and roleplaying games more broadly.

Myst itself is based on the creators' dungeons and dragons campaign (with the mechanical age being literally one of the dungeons they created with all the monsters removed and only the puzzles intact)

So, even though they are games all about exploration of an environment and interacting with it in order to survive, I feel like an important part of the taxonomy if one were to disregard the rpg rule for a moment, is the freedom to come up with one's own solutions to a problem. The linearity inherent to early IF and to most adventure games is the detail that truly separates the games from being true dungeoncrawls.
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:02 pm        Reply with quote

Tulpa wrote:
So, even though they are games all about exploration of an environment and interacting with it in order to survive, I feel like an important part of the taxonomy if one were to disregard the rpg rule for a moment, is the freedom to come up with one's own solutions to a problem. The linearity inherent to early IF and to most adventure games is the detail that truly separates the games from being true dungeoncrawls.


Yes, that is a good point. I talk briefly about Nox and its linearity is probably the main reason I can't quite call it a dungeon crawler. Granted, I haven't played that far into it, but that was my impression. I should probably have put more emphasis on non-linearity of problem solving in my criteria.

One series of games I struggle to classify is Ultima, a series I don't have a lot of experience with. The Underworld games are clearly dungeon crawlers. 4 and after I think are not. Part of me wants to say that 1-3 are, since I consider Akalabeth a dungeon crawler, but I just have a hard time thinking of them in the same way. There's just too much emphasis on the overworld. Any Ultima experts here with an opinion?
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cake



Joined: 11 Aug 2009

PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:52 pm        Reply with quote

Tulpa wrote:

IF's earliest works, Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, etc are very indebted to fighting fantasy style gamebooks in particular

I'm curious about this, I thought Zork (started 1977?) and Adventure (1976/1977) pre-dated the more famous gamebooks?


After searching a bit, I found out that Flying Buffalo released solo adventures for Tunnels & Trolls, starting with "Buffalo Castle" in 1976. There's a HTML version on the Flying Buffalo website.
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The Blueberry Hill



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:19 pm        Reply with quote

jjsimpso wrote:
The Blueberry Hill wrote:
Is there a way to get the PDF without registering for some jerk website?


Direct link to pdf.


Thank you!
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The Blueberry Hill



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:04 am        Reply with quote

I like this a lot so far. Most of it's new/ish to me, as most of my experience with this games is bits and pieces from old demo discs.

I think I have some more games for the Akalabeth-likes section, though. I'm a pretty big fan of Steve Moraff (because of the Blast games), and some of his games fit as best I remember: Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven (1993), Moraff's World (1991), and Moraff's Revenge (1988)--though that is equally first-person and third-person, maybe.

By the way, don't be shy about frontpaging stuff like this. When it drops out of the Axe I will probably do so, and shift it to KOP, if you don't mind.

Byer the way Steve Moraff makes nice looking games: http://vidconrelated.tumblr.com/post/80117459525
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another coma
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Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: the wrong museum

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:50 am        Reply with quote

JJ this is pretty cool! I think we should make a frontpage version of this thread so some more people outside of the axe see it. If you don't want to make it personally, I can make it for you (if you don't want to at all that's cool too...)
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:16 am        Reply with quote

cake wrote:
Tulpa wrote:

IF's earliest works, Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, etc are very indebted to fighting fantasy style gamebooks in particular

I'm curious about this, I thought Zork (started 1977?) and Adventure (1976/1977) pre-dated the more famous gamebooks?


After searching a bit, I found out that Flying Buffalo released solo adventures for Tunnels & Trolls, starting with "Buffalo Castle" in 1976. There's a HTML version on the Flying Buffalo website.


while that was actually a brian hiccup on my part due to lack of sleep, it's cool that you found an actual proto-gamebook that's still available.
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Wall of Beef



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:55 am        Reply with quote

I was notified by HP Magcloud that my copy was printed today and put in the mail!
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dementia



Joined: 05 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:00 am        Reply with quote

cool
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:51 pm        Reply with quote

another coma wrote:
JJ this is pretty cool! I think we should make a frontpage version of this thread so some more people outside of the axe see it. If you don't want to make it personally, I can make it for you (if you don't want to at all that's cool too...)


I'm certainly ok with this thread moving to the frontpage. Can we just move the whole thread? I'd like to keep all the discussions in the same place if possible. If you can do that, then you go ahead and move it if you want.
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another coma
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:06 pm        Reply with quote

jjsimpso wrote:
another coma wrote:
JJ this is pretty cool! I think we should make a frontpage version of this thread so some more people outside of the axe see it. If you don't want to make it personally, I can make it for you (if you don't want to at all that's cool too...)


I'm certainly ok with this thread moving to the frontpage. Can we just move the whole thread? I'd like to keep all the discussions in the same place if possible. If you can do that, then you go ahead and move it if you want.


Done!
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Wall of Beef



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:55 am        Reply with quote

FRONTPAGE CONTENT!
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:21 am        Reply with quote

The Blueberry Hill wrote:
I like this a lot so far. Most of it's new/ish to me, as most of my experience with this games is bits and pieces from old demo discs.

I think I have some more games for the Akalabeth-likes section, though. I'm a pretty big fan of Steve Moraff (because of the Blast games), and some of his games fit as best I remember: Moraff's Dungeons of the Unforgiven (1993), Moraff's World (1991), and Moraff's Revenge (1988)--though that is equally first-person and third-person, maybe.

By the way, don't be shy about frontpaging stuff like this. When it drops out of the Axe I will probably do so, and shift it to KOP, if you don't mind.

Byer the way Steve Moraff makes nice looking games: http://vidconrelated.tumblr.com/post/80117459525


Oh, I remember these! I just dabbled with one or two of them for a bit, but I remember thinking they were kinda neat. I seem to remember having little windows that showed the left and right views, so it was 1st person but you looked in at least 3 directions simultaneously.

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for frontpaging this another coma.
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OffalAl



Joined: 11 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:02 am        Reply with quote

The Blueberry Hill wrote:
vidconrelated

been wondering for a while who this was 8-)

still haven't read past the first handful of pages as i decided i'd rather consume this as ink on paper. planning a breathless return to this thread in a few weeks, the day after it arrives in the post!
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Wall of Beef



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:54 am        Reply with quote

My print copy arrived today, but I have not had a chance to read anything yet. Flipped through it and it looks real nice!
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Wall of Beef



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:21 pm        Reply with quote

This was a real nice read. I've never been too into these games as a player, but always love reading about the history of them and their design.

I enjoyed the Dark Sun: Shattered Lands review because that was the D&D campaign that a few friends and me attempted to learn D&D with a year or so ago. It turns out the Pen & Paper RPGs isn't a thing my group could really get into (i'd like to try again with someone more experienced however) and its interesting how they were able to transfer the game from page to screen.

Your review parameters are indeed way more detailed than any other metric I have ever read. Cheers to that!

Whats the scope of the next issue? Will it have a genre focus as well?
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:13 pm        Reply with quote

I haven't started on volume 2 yet, so I'm still considering my options for the theme. I do like the idea of having at least a loose focus for each issue, so I will probably choose something. Lead contenders at the moment are simulations and cyberpunk. I could probably do five issues on CRPGs no problem, but I'd like to start off with at least a little variety.

If I do simulations I'll definitely be playing Mechwarrior and Wing Commander, and possibly some more detailed flight sim. I really like the idea of making volume 2 about this, the problem is that I'm not really a sim expert.

If I choose cyberpunk I get to cover a wider variety of games. I'd at least do System Shock and probably Syndicate.

Anyone have any games/topics they'd especially like to see in the next issue?
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CubaLibre
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:25 am        Reply with quote

Sims is a really broad topic, which could conceivably include everything from IL-2 Sturmovik to Rainbow Six. There's not necessarily a whole lot of audience crossover with the subgenres - usually people come to the games because they're real-life enthusiasts rather than videogamers.
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:02 am        Reply with quote

I wouldn't ever include Rainbow Six as a sim but that's because we have slightly different ideas of what sims are.

I'd love to see an issue of antiquated game player all about Trading Sims (Elite series, Privateer series, Sid Meier's Pirates!, Patrician series, etc.)
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Tulpa



Joined: 31 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:06 am        Reply with quote

Cyberpunk would be a really fun issue though, you can hit on well known games but also highlight some more obscure works like B.A.T. II the Koshan Conspiracy and the kind of subgenre of hacking sims including stuff like Uplink
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jjsimpso



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:03 pm        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Sims is a really broad topic, which could conceivably include everything from IL-2 Sturmovik to Rainbow Six. There's not necessarily a whole lot of audience crossover with the subgenres - usually people come to the games because they're real-life enthusiasts rather than videogamers.


This is probably what interests me most about old computer games, the fact that they were made for various hobbyist groups that predated the PC. In this sense, early CRPGs are really just D&D sims.

If I cover sims for next issue, it will probably be "flight" or "space" sims. Trading sims would probably have to wait for a latter issue because I'd have a lot of learning to do before I could write anything worthwhile on the topic. I would like to play Elite and Privateer at some point though, so it could happen.
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