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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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 Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:47 pm |
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I think that is a pretty good cast.
I only played Halo 1 so I shut up about 2.
I definitely have never played a competitive FPS to the level required for the map analysis given in the opening posts of this thread, but I think the general distinction between games with and without powerups holds, in the sense that it is both accurate and probably the most important binary distinction affecting competitive map design.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:05 am |
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| Reed wrote: |
| (In CoD there's effectively no map control, you spawn with your loadout and run around twitch shooting stuff so you can call in OP killstreaks and kill more. Correct me if I'm wrong but the closest thing I can think of is camping with shotgun, and even then you can run around with dual 1887s no matter the map. CS seems to avoid this by making every loadout/buy fairly even on a macro level, while being so punishing that you're forced to care about the map. maybe if CoD was 1-life then you'd see the same, idk) |
This isn't exactly true. CoD map control is largely spawn control, kind of like that stuff you posted about Halo earlier. Since the game is CS-lethal, it's usually a who-shoots-first contest, which means flanking is king, which means you have to know where your enemy is coming from and how to cut them off. That's why the minimap is such a huge part of the game, and also why items that control the minimap (silencers and Ghost-type perks) are also a huge part of the game. Experts dominate pug games through map awareness, not twitch - though twitch certainly helps.
Killstreaks are annoying and for scrubs but their efficacy is overrated. They all have simple, highly effective counters and the meta usually shifts to support loadouts with those counters.
Speaking of 1-life, CoD has such a mode, and it even has bombs/sites exactly like CS. It's called Sabotage. It's not popular online, but I think the hardcore competitive scene, such as it is, actually focuses on that mode.
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| Maybe someone else can provide some insight into the line you could draw between the set of Quake/Unreal/Halo as far as different visions of the powerup-based arena shooter. I haven't played the first two but I def feel like I missed out on something by being too young when Unreal was big, the meta of a game where every weapon has a secondary fire must be crazy to learn/develop/behold |
Quake 2, 3, UT, and UT2k3/4 were all right in my halcyon days, but again I'm not much of a competitive FPSer (the thing I was biggest into was TFC). Watching top-level 1v1s and 2v2s of those games is insane.
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:20 am |
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Yeah I don't know much about the "real" competitive scene. It seems boring. Because the game offers so many potential loadouts either restrictions or metagame tiers are inevitable. IW and Treyarch are pretty clearly unconcerned about overall balance so it falls to whatever authority runs competitive matches to enforce balance.
I mean, your impression of a bunch of kids running around doing random shit isn't completely wrong. CoD doesn't work so great on a 1-life scheme because it's too easy to die - there are too many variables in an average game to control them all, and you will inevitably die no matter how good you are. Like, an expert TF2 player can stomp a bad team without dying once. In CoD that isn't impossible, but it is somewhat random and far less common. That's why k/d ratio is such a big deal. It's kind of like baseball - you win 50, you lose 50, it's the other 50 that matter.
It's certainly not one of the great competitive FPSes and actually I don't even think it's that fun. It's just not 100% bullshit is all I'm saying.
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