The Best Sequel

Glam Grimfire · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:13 pm

I dunno if anyone will agree with me on this, but I was just thinking about it today at work and I'd have to say that Final Fantasy 12 is, even though Final Fantasy 10 is a fantastic game, just so much more and more interesting than the ones that came before it on more modern hardware.
_________________

##SKELETON PARTY (new article as of 04/26/14)Grim

Felix · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:16 pm

Except Final Fantasy X is actually a terrible game and very few people liked or learned any design lessons from 12 as it was released so it doesn't really inform the discussion as well as we'd like

parker · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:05 pm

I don't see what the popularity of a game has to do with it being a good sequel or not
_________________

boojiboy7 · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:11 pm

Calling GG2 a sequel is a bit weird, since it really has so little to do with GG at all. Still amazed by it, though.

schroeder · Joined: 06 Mar 2013 Location: Interior of mind n+1

boojiboy7 · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:54 pm

Ronk · saucy Scott Pilgrim fanfic Joined: 29 Dec 2008

Felix · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:00 pm

NBA Street Vol.2 remains a favourite of mine though I can see other people sticking with NBA Jam for its purity. NHL 93/94 are otherwise the inevitable and correct 16-bit choices, except possibly where baseball is concerned (it's so boring as a videogame that I don't think anything since Baseball Stars 2 and/or Griffey on SNES has really improved much).

also agree that football is probably either Dreamcast-era NFL 2K/1 or 2K4/2K5. I'm not really sure that Blitz holds up, but hey, maybe. I've been having fun with the Frozen Endzone beta!

yes to Virtua Tennis and SSX3 (neo-SSX is really quite good and I would probably recommend it over 3 these days but it isn't quite as "significant"). not sure about THPS3 over 2.

soccer is still pretty contentious. I think that sim games have (fairly recently) gotten to a point where they're mostly more fun and more interesting than even the best arcadey alternatives (e.g. Sega Soccer Slam). Winning Eleven was pretty consistently named better than FIFA until 2012, which was a phenomenal installment (even if, like me, you have only a passing interest in the genre and hadn't played a soccer game in years, the difference is now much more a matter of opinion). not much has changed since then other than PS4 graphics, and it was one of the (relatively few) years that the PC version was at feature parity with the consoles, so that would be my starting point for the curious.

Broco · Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters

It makes me sad that this thread has reached page 3 and nobody mentioned Star Control 2 yet. It's a fantastically ambitious (and successfully so) expansion on the basic battle mechanics of the first game into a vast space exploration action-RPG where the battles are a minigame (that is itself hugely improved by a doubling of the ship roster).

Felix · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:32 pm

oh shit yeah! Star Control 2 is actually my canonical "first modern still-playable/compelling/well-written western RPG" (it came out a few months after Ultima VII but fuck it)

Deets · Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Ronk · saucy Scott Pilgrim fanfic Joined: 29 Dec 2008

Felix · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:54 am

Oh, and another one I forgot: Fight Night Champion. Almost more of a fighting game but I don't think anyone who's particularly into fighting games counts it that way. It's also one of the best looking games from last Gen and extremely cheap because they sell the various modes piecemeal and the completely uncompelling online is the most expensive.

boojiboy7 · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:16 pm

Fight Night Round 3 was my fightnight jam, but yeah, that series definitely got better with each iteration.

Star Control 2 was so much of a development over the first that it makes the first just not even a thing.

I really liked SSX On Tour a lot more than anyone else, but yes SSX3 is what to give it to.

Felix · Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:48 pm

I said it a few months ago but I really think it's a shame that SC2 never got an SNES port, which I'm fairly certain would've been narrowly feasible (less narrowly if using one of the special chips later on), particularly as its roots as an action game mean that it actually has a four-button control setup rather than using nearly every key on the keyboard as was typical of that era. Not enough people fondly remember a DOS/3DO-only game from 1992, and I think that's largely because of cost, perhaps as well as the lack of clearly-bounded "retro" hardware generations to get nostalgic about or inspire remakes. At least it's open-source now so it's been ported to Linux and Wii and PSP and Android and every other platform that gets emulator ports. Honestly every bit as fun and interesting as X-Com and Fallout and the other greats from that milieu -- if it's a little more foundational than some of the better-known late 90s stuff, it really isn't any less playable or polished.

Talbain · Joined: 14 Jan 2007

RT-55J · *maverick* Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Location: Elsewhere

Star Fox 2

RadRad · Joined: 31 Jul 2013

I'm also going to have to second Mother 3.

Mother 3 is pretty much the same as Earthbound, visually (though sharper on design), but streamlines EVERYTHING "technical".
The new Rhythm Battle combat system, which isn't necessary but is quite intricate.
The "health odometer" falling or increasing with health and damage, but can be put to a halt or slow down with healing or an end of a battle.
Running.
Saving and money system.
Menus.
It's just perfect.

And also second Felix on Rhythm Tengoku being a "sequel" to WarioWare.
Which would also probably mean Rusty's Real Deal Baseball would be the best sequel to Rhythm Heaven....Heh.
_________________
http://www.iamthefourth.com/

Felix · Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:11 pm

another entry, which is nowhere near some of the greats mentioned itt but is consistent with the discussion (though I know there are those who prefer the simplicity of the original): Paper Mario 2.

analogos · bravely default crying fairy Joined: 10 Jun 2007

analogos · bravely default crying fairy Joined: 10 Jun 2007

Felix · Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:32 pm

analogos · bravely default crying fairy Joined: 10 Jun 2007

also, yeah. SoR2 explored, improved and iterated upon not only itself, but also the otherwise genre defining seminal standard Final Fight in one clean stroke. the belt scroll genre is a wasteland of sub-Golden Axe clones to this day. that very little has come particularly close to challenging its relevance decades later puts it pretty firmly in the running for best sequel imo

RadRad · Joined: 31 Jul 2013

T. · Joined: 11 Mar 2009

Talbain · Joined: 14 Jan 2007

1CC · Joined: 08 Oct 2010

I prefer Bare Knuckle 3 to Streets of Rage 2.

Kinto · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Location: LANDAN

meauxdal · Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:04 pm

one of the armored core games...

i haven't played them all, so i couldn't tell you. for answer is pretty amazing, and a great refinement of 4. they love to tweak things on armored core, i love it. armored core is like the perpetual pet project. i literally fantasize about being able to design games sort of in the design-build-and-fight-mecha all day every day style. to fuse it with exploration gameplay taking bits from resource gathering games like minecraft or don't starve and adding bosses you can fight with your mecha while exploring between arena battles and
_________________

another god · Joined: 04 Dec 2006

re: composerzane - so you mean you fantasize about designing the souls games.
_________________
interdimensional

Mr. Mechanical · Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 11:32 pm

So are we counting spiritual sequels (and I assume we are if people are talking about the Souls games)? If so I'll throw in Sleeping Dogs as sequel to the True Crime games since it originally started out development as True Crime: Hong Kong, the third in the series.

Also Halo 1 as a spiritual sequel to the Marathon games fits as well.
_________________

1CC · Joined: 08 Oct 2010

Talbain · Joined: 14 Jan 2007

Loki Laufeyson · Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 10:14 am

another god · Joined: 04 Dec 2006

I dunno, dude, sometimes the first game but fancier can be cool.
_________________
interdimensional

1CC · Joined: 08 Oct 2010

I was quite disappointed when I rented 64 back in the day, because I found it to be way easier compared to the first game.
_________________
pls ignore me i'm a shithead

Renfrew · Posted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:35 am

I've talked about it on podcasts before, but I think Mortal Kombat II is a fantastic sequel that does everything right. It dove headfirst into exploring the weird stolen Big Trouble in Little China aesthetic of the first, ran with the rumored secrets culture that popped up around the first, went nuts with the different ways to finish your opponents and took strides towards making the weird fighting system an actual fun game to play.

I also think Shenmue 2 did an amazing job of subverting the feel of the first game (going from big man in town to fish out of water in Hong Kong) giving you loads more stuff to do and participate in, creating more exciting scenarios for both the direct controlled action and QTEs, including an incredibly exciting climax where you basically come face to face with your father's killer, and then after a whole game of fixing players' issues with the first (like being able to speed up time and giving you really easy ways to make unlimited money) and making the overall situation more involving and fun, it hits you with like 2 hours of just slowly walking through the woods talking about plants and animals as if to say, "You didn't like the boring parts of Shenmue 1? Guess what? That's what this series is all about and you're just going to have to deal with it because I'm Yu Suzuki." And then Yu Suzuki hiked up his high waisted jeans, slid on his sunglasses and drove off in his Ferrari to go live in a cave and paint for the rest of his life.
_________________