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Guillotine

Joined: 05 May 2008
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:17 am |
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Talbain, RSs are fairly intimidating but eventually they're not all that once you learn when to roll like anything else, I soloed them a couple of times, always melee, once with a katana + resin buff. The boss fight gives you enough time to kill one before another appears, and the second you can near kill before the third jump on the platform. At this point is better to jump down and play carefully to finish the one heavily damaged and then it's a last 1 vs 1.
Of course I got to learn their moveset in another occasion later, free of pressure. |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:26 am |
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For anybody who cares, regarding a boss: So, the Royal Rat Authority is super-easy if you just absolutely refuse to target the boss and simply run under the boss and stay there at all times. Make sure that once you get him to 1/3 health or so that you start attacking him mercilessly. Just kill him before he breathes that poison garbage. There's no real strategy I could devise as a melee against the 4 rats at the beginning. I killed them entirely by luck. _________________
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:44 am |
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| Guillotine wrote: |
Talbain, RSs are fairly intimidating but eventually they're not all that once you learn when to roll like anything else, I soloed them a couple of times, always melee, once with a katana + resin buff. The boss fight gives you enough time to kill one before another appears, and the second you can near kill before the third jump on the platform. At this point is better to jump down and play carefully to finish the one heavily damaged and then it's a last 1 vs 1.
Of course I got to learn their moveset in another occasion later, free of pressure. |
Sure, but as a shieldless Sorcerer you have to be extraordinarily on point. That was kind of the biggest issue of the run, being without a shield for certain bosses they become absolutely unforgiving.
I wish a Sorcerer's Staff could at least be used as an effective shield against magic or something.
edit: So something I found out - You can't light your torch at a Primal Bonfire? Any reason lorewise that is the way it is? _________________
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scratchmonkey Final Finasty

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:19 pm |
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Talbain -
Regarding the RSes, you just have to learn when to roll such that they whiff all their attacks. It's a big ask because basically one hit and you could be screwed, the tough part is taking out the first one on the platform, then with the second two I drop straight down (with a mage) and just concentrate on keeping them both in my field of vision while kiting them around the room. It takes a long time, you will eventually get both of them in a recovery animation at the same time enough to pop off spells/do some quick healing. Use the pillars to help out as well and since you're fighting them at range, watch out for the shield throw.
As for the mummies, you can roll out of their explosion, you just need to time it right, basically do it mid-leap and you should be out of it and be able to pop them while they're getting up. Although I've found it more effective to just unload on them when they're running up -- magic does enough damage to them that you should be able to take them out before they get to their leap. |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:21 pm |
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| scratchmonkey wrote: |
Talbain -
Regarding the RSes, you just have to learn when to roll such that they whiff all their attacks. It's a big ask because basically one hit and you could be screwed, the tough part is taking out the first one on the platform, then with the second two I drop straight down (with a mage) and just concentrate on keeping them both in my field of vision while kiting them around the room. It takes a long time, you will eventually get both of them in a recovery animation at the same time enough to pop off spells/do some quick healing. Use the pillars to help out as well and since you're fighting them at range, watch out for the shield throw.
As for the mummies, you can roll out of their explosion, you just need to time it right, basically do it mid-leap and you should be out of it and be able to pop them while they're getting up. Although I've found it more effective to just unload on them when they're running up -- magic does enough damage to them that you should be able to take them out before they get to their leap. |
In the case of a mage, the exploding zombies are no problem at all. I found them obnoxious during my melee run, particularly in the room with Straid. I dunno about the Ruin Sentinels being manageable in such a manner. I would say that the best I've been able to do is beat it and move on, much like the Royal Rat Authority with melee. I managed to beat the fight, but I felt like it was entirely based on luck whether or not I would be successful, which isn't really a feeling I like in this kind of game. Granted, I felt that way about those fucking archers in Anor Londo and False King in the original Demon's Souls, so it's not like it didn't exist in the other games. It does feel... a bit more regular here though.
I do think it's interesting to note that the place I've died the most (unrelated to boss deaths) still continues to be No Man's Wharf. _________________
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scratchmonkey Final Finasty

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:44 pm |
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The Ruin Sentinels are incredibly tedious solo just because you need to spend so much time defending. The real "crunch" with a mage is the first one on the small upper platform, just in terms of constantly avoiding the attacks and finding windows for damage. I always make sure that my mages at least have a somewhat-viable melee weapon, so getting in a quick stab might be more effective than waiting for a big enough window to fire a spell. Once you drop down and are in a 2v1, it's more manageable just because of the amount of space you have to move around in.
Re: the mummies and melee characters, you should be able to one-shot them, so it's a matter of getting the timing right such that you hit them during the leap. If you can get that down, the only situation with them that should give trouble is if there's more than one of them. |
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diplo

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:11 pm |
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| Talbain wrote: |
| I find it frustrating how much less important rolling feels in this game |
With how much opponents' hits drain stamina now, I think it feels more important than ever. |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:54 am |
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| diplo wrote: |
| Talbain wrote: |
| I find it frustrating how much less important rolling feels in this game |
With how much opponents' hits drain stamina now, I think it feels more important than ever. |
I think what I mean when I say this is that it's generally easier to snipe/stun/knockdown enemies than it is to simply engage them or to use a particularly heavy weapon that can cause them to reel, thus never giving them a chance to attack. Engaging the AI feels much more difficult due to how often you meet groups of enemies and cannot really engage them singularly, where rolling really becomes necessary. The bosses are the only place where rolling feels pertinent, but the way some bosses work is intended to simply force you to engage those multiple enemy situations, where again, rolling becomes much more dicey. Not exceptionally difficult to make a safe roll against one opponent but there are so many added factors when a second opponent is introduced to the fold.
I think that Ruin Sentinels probably could have been just as difficult if it was a fight with just that one initial Sentinel and the entire fight was contained on that platform (which is to say that the room below it simply becomes a pit, and thus the challenge of the fight is engaging an enemy with wide sweeping attacks in a small space).
Tangential; I hate how gimmicky Executioner's Chariot feels, mostly with regards to the hitboxes on phase one feeling overly large - I've been hit by them while in a nook twice and thought that I died to enemies but in fact was hit by the spiked wheels.
Similarly not huge on how many "you're committed to going this direction" situations there are in this game. I know teleporting exists but particularly for the player that doesn't want to use teleporting it definitely becomes a really difficult issue to contend with. _________________
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Broco

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:19 am |
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| Refraining from warping truly isn't how this game is meant to be played, so I recommend giving up on that principle. You're going to have an increasingly hard time leveling up and smithing weapons. The only time the linearity should be an issue is in no-bonfire runs (although primal bonfires are allowed in those, so it's still only a big problem on the Drangleic Castle path). |
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CubaLibre the road lawyer

Joined: 02 Mar 2007 Location: Balmer
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:22 am |
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Luna Belfry can suck it yeeeeeah I conquered that shit.
After of course I found DULL EMBER. Game changer.
Man I way really did not expect Pursuer to pop back up in that boss room! Good thing I totally have the number on all his combos and schooled him even though it took like 40 hits. _________________ Let's Play, starring me. |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:32 am |
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| Broco wrote: |
| Refraining from warping truly isn't how this game is meant to be played, so I recommend giving up on that principle. You're going to have an increasingly hard time leveling up and smithing weapons. The only time the linearity should be an issue is in no-bonfire runs (although primal bonfires are allowed in those, so it's still only a big problem on the Drangleic Castle path). |
I know, but the fact that there is an achievement and even a bonus item you get for beating the game without teleporting kind of runs the point home as the game wanting that to be an option but it not really being an option because of how the game frequently forces you to go in a certain direction up until the level's terminus. _________________
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Broco

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:01 am |
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| The bonus item is not for not teleporting, but for not sitting at a bonfire at all during the game (you can only light them or sit at primal bonfires) -- the main problem that causes is being unable to teleport, but it also causes a few other problems as well. I think it's more meant as a really hardcore challenge rather than a reasonable option (the other bonus item is for no deaths). |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:18 am |
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That's definitely fair. I started out not wanting to use the teleport function as much as possible and just ended up using it after about an hour or two of running between some of the starting bonfires. _________________
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sarsamis

Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:28 am |
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The gargoyles were actually really easy for me to solo since I could just stand there blocking all their shit. I guess I used ronnoc's prostrat *shrug*
Beat the game earlier, but I still have yet to do some optional stuff.
Having enough equip load to do the decent roll with full armor and the tower shield feels great.
This game has some real Monster Hunter ass hitboxes. I don't remember that being the case with Demon's Souls, but it's been a few years now, so iuno. |
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Broco

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:34 am |
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| Felix wrote: |
| CubaLibre wrote: |
I've been doing most of the bosses co-op. This is a big change from Demon's and Dark 1, where I took great pride in beating all the bosses myself with a melee character.
I dunno, a lot of them have an "I get it" pattern where I just don't feel like doing all the waiting in between when I can poke. Jolly co-operation makes it go faster. I'm having a lot of fun with it this time around. |
this was my experience too, though I attribute it in part to the online being much more active in this case than when I played Demon's and Dark |
I played Dark when it had just come out and there were still really long waits before managing to co-op. The main difference is that the matchmaking netcode is way better now. |
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parker a wolf adventuring

Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: suplex city
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:57 am |
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Is the shrine of amana where the game just says fuck you if you've been playing an offline melee character _________________
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cavefish

Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:23 am |
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| parker wrote: |
| Is the shrine of amana where the game just says fuck you if you've been playing an offline melee character |
same thing's happening to me |
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Talbain

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:54 am |
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| parker wrote: |
| Is the shrine of amana where the game just says fuck you if you've been playing an offline melee character |
And this is where my "kill all enemies in one hit or else" argument becomes particularly pertinent. _________________
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sarsamis

Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:06 pm |
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| Buy a lot of poison arrows from Gavlan. |
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mauve

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:01 pm |
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in amana there's an npc summon in the house after the second bonfire/giant death moomin
otherwise yeah just do yourself a favor and get a bow, any bow. even crossbows can be aimed now. _________________ twit |
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Felix unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: vancouver
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 4:12 pm |
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yeah, it's such a beautiful area, I don't mind how cruel it is to solo melee characters
seconding "get a bow" |
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bza a very bad gay

Joined: 24 Jul 2010 Location: A cave in a swamp somewhere
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:39 pm |
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or be a sunbro like me and yell 420 PRAISE IT throwing lightning bolts at the casters
>:3 _________________
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Broco

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:52 pm |
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| They nerfed the casters' homing in a recent patch so you're experiencing easy-mode Amana. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the other thread. |
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 5:58 pm |
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| Man this game is quite good. But several hours in and I still find the stats menus absolutely abysmal. The symbols are nigh unintelligeble. It's just a bunch of little squares. I know they are supposed to be pictorgraphic, but they are too small and numerous to be useful. They should have just given us a list of words. |
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sponkmonkey

Joined: 24 May 2011 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:05 pm |
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| Broco wrote: |
| They nerfed the casters' homing in a recent patch so you're experiencing easy-mode Amana. There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the other thread. |
still wasn't as bad as Lost Izalith pre-nerf
war of the butts _________________
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diplo

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:09 pm |
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| Toptube wrote: |
| Man this game is quite good. But several hours in and I still find the stats menus absolutely abysmal. The symbols are nigh unintelligeble. It's just a bunch of little squares. I know they are supposed to be pictorgraphic, but they are too small and numerous to be useful. They should have just given us a list of words. |
Also it's clear that DS2 is the first Souls game whose displays were designed around the mega-HD TV crowd. Trying to read descriptions and suss out what numbers actually are on my small SD TV is making me slowly break down inside.
<3 Amana |
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Broco

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: Headquarters
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:16 pm |
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| Toptube wrote: |
| Man this game is quite good. But several hours in and I still find the stats menus absolutely abysmal. The symbols are nigh unintelligeble. It's just a bunch of little squares. I know they are supposed to be pictorgraphic, but they are too small and numerous to be useful. They should have just given us a list of words. |
The problem is they're trying to cram too much information there. They should just show the key stats that are important for that equipment (for a weapon: nonzero damage categories; for a shield: stability and >80% reduction categories) and move all the gory details into a submenu. It's all needlessly confusing and intimidating. I don't give a crap about exact damage reduction values for when I might use my axe to block. |
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analogos bravely default crying fairy

Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:21 pm |
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i died in amana less than just about anywhere else, with melee and without
it's simultaneously more linear than the lack of walls would suggest and provides more room to play around with than the presence of bottomless pits would suggest. to me it seems like an area you only need play through slowly once or twice before never needing to spend much time in again, as opposed to more knotted areas in which you bash your head against disjointed clusters of enemies divorced from the rest multiple times, gradually flushing the area of its threats and treats in bursts.
helps that nothing but the safely ignorable cyclops has particularly high health
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analogos bravely default crying fairy

Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:24 pm |
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| the HD issue is legitimate, but @broco i actually appreciate the signal to noise ratio. i can see how it would be distracting for some, but i personally find it a lot easier to consider my options when i can see as much information at once as possible. |
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Felix unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: vancouver
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:42 pm |
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the point in 2009 or so when new console games finally stopped giving a shit about the possibility of someone not having a 720p+ display was also around when game design got its head out of the ass it'd been in for three years anyhow
not saying those are expressly related |
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Tulpa

Joined: 31 Jul 2008
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:47 pm |
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I don't agree with Diplo: I found Dark Souls 1 basically unreadable on my terrible CRT TV when the game came out, Dark Souls 2 is about the same level of readability but I thankfully no longer have a CRT so I don't have to suffer through that again. _________________
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:07 pm |
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| Tulpa wrote: |
| Dark Souls 2 is about the same level of readability |
Something I was illuding to is that Dark Souls 2 is much less readable. The layout and info displayed is similar----but there are more stat entries for the same amount of screen space. which means the pictograph squares are much smaller.
Dark Souls 1 was initially daunting, becuase they present you with a lot of info. But the pictographs where large enough and distinct enough in color and symbols---that it worked pretty well, once you cataloged what all the info meant.
I know what the info means in Dark Souls 2-----but the pictographs are tiny, which means they have less pixels for distinct symbols and they aren't nearly as separated by color, as they were in Dark Souls. It's just a bad way to present a ton of info and I'm still having trouble glancing quickly at certain things, even as a Demon's Souls and Dark Souls veteran.
I'm playing the game on a 50 inch 1080p screen, so I'm not exactly hurting for display resolution. It's just a bad way to present a ton of info.
Last edited by Toptube on Thu May 01, 2014 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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diplo

Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Location: Brandy Brendo's bungalow
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:46 pm |
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| 2's text is demonstrably smaller and not as bright. 1 vs. 2 |
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mauve

Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:57 pm |
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you know what i hate
when i pick up a new item, and i have no fucking clue where in my inventory it is. (the type icons are vague and REALLY TINY on pickup, too. never mind when you pick up Sword X With Icon That Looks Like Your Other 30 Swords)
and there's no manual sort anymore!
i just didn't bother and sorted through stuff every few hours.
also that you can't get "real" information on player status anymore is completely confusing. you have to use the equipment screen for a lot of it, and that's kinda messed up in its own way. (where's my exact HP value anyway... ugh) _________________ twit |
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Felix unofficial repository
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: vancouver
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 10:59 pm |
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| yeah the menus are pretty bad |
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 11:15 pm |
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| I got a Channeler's Trident today. I'd be surprised if there's a quicker spear in the game. Dang. |
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Brooks

Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Location: peak caucasity
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:06 am |
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Bought a cheap pad, made some progress
Man does this remind me a lot more of Maximo than the last Dark Souls did |
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misadventurous

Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Location: witch city
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:09 am |
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i got to amana, said "haha. Okay" and started levelling up my greatbow
it was a good decision, maybe the best one. |
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sarsamis

Joined: 17 Feb 2007
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:43 am |
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Man, I got Ancient Dragon down to about 10% health earlier, but found myself like 1 pixel short of escaping one of his big fire blasts.
A lot of these bosses are easier if you don't lock on and play with something akin to the claw from Monster Hunter. |
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parker a wolf adventuring

Joined: 31 May 2007 Location: suplex city
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:52 am |
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I'm stuck on the last boss and I can't beat the two optional guys either. My character feels so worthless suddenly maybe I should respec or something, punching doesn't seem to be cutting it here, though up til now the only bosses I had any trouble with were the rotten and the big gold guy. On the last boss even with two npc phantoms I can't seem to get anything going. _________________
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Toptube Anti-cabbage Party Candidate
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:15 am |
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This player and I shared a fire for awhile
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