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tiburon
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:26 am |
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| mauve wrote: |
| edit: so this is making the rounds. you know, like forever ago, when post IDs were 5~6 digits, I was a channer. I grew out of it, but a lot of this is very familiar. |
that's pretty good. it's similar to a lot of my earlier posts itt, except more concrete and fleshed out. it's true that whenever a face rises from the ceaseless ocean that is anon, it gets battered by waves. it has happened to me on multiple occasions, most recently when i joined the speedrunning community, and i've seen it happen to friends from 4chan's speedrunning community as well. which is a big part of the reason i don't go to that part of 4chan anymore.
i basically just migrated from the shittier, more toxic areas of 4chan to the calmer waters, and nowadays i make a point of rarely posting with any sort of ID. but god forbid you mention you are black or brown or female or trans or gay anywhere, even anonymously. simply stating these things is seen as 'inviting an argument' or 'being an attention whore', even when it's relevant to what you say. it is a roiling sea. I've been called 'nigger' or 'shitskin' or 'sandnigger' or 'paki' or 'curry' or 'faggot' enough for one lifetime.
| MattCD42 wrote: |
| Because apparently I didn't line up my context correctly, booji mostly hit it. I mean it like this everyone is different from another person in some regard. The people harassing will key to ANY aspect of you being different and make that bad. Is being black, mexican, idian, or whatever bad? No. Is being female? No. Will these people use that as fodder to fuck with you? Yes. |
I think it's sad that you've normalized this state of affairs.
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tiburon
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:49 am |
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| Flylighter wrote: |
| misadventurous wrote: |
| but if those people are seizing on identifiers like "Black" or "Asian" or "Woman" or "Gay" to insult others... doesn't that make them bigots?. |
It's possible that they are, but I suspect that's not the case as often as you seem to think (in my opinion, it's something possibly worse).
So someone says or does something that makes you angry, and instead of a level-headed human being, you're a horrible piece of shit. And not just the "I'm gonna troll this guy with flame comments" brand piece of shit; instead, the type looking to inflict emotional damage. With even a rudimentary knowledge of what makes people tick, you can suss out that bigotry-type bias really cuts to the core for a lot of people. So, if they're black, start slinging the racism. If they're gay, bring the homophobic hatred. If they're female, give them shit based on that. If they're fat, give them shit based on that. And so on down the list of traits different from you, the piece of shit. If nothing readily comes to mind, let the SWATing begin.
To me, bigotry has at least the excuse of being borne from fear or ignorance, something exposed to from childhood that can be grown out of. Awful, but not as bad as someone who knows that shit is wrong, but wields the terminology anyway out of pure malice. I don't feel like calling them bigots is really the right word. |
"It's not racist to use societal racism to inflict hurt on a minority, thereby piggybacking on years of past oppression and hurt inflicted" - ?
or if it is racist what he said, how can it be that something is racist and yet not bigoted? racist words coming from a non-bigot? they certainly weren't said accidentally, they were intended to hurt and to harm, and they only have that power because they were words created for that purpose, to hurt and to harm one specific group of people, mark them as inferior. so how can the person using those words, intentionally and with malice, not be a bigot?
i'm not trying to target you here, i'm just wondering on what earth intention matters. 'he was only 50% racist on the inside, even if he said 100% racist words' - i'm not buying it. 'he's not a racist, just an asshole' - por que no los dos? surely if it looks like a racist, talks like a racist, targets like a racist, benefits from his hate actions like a racist in a racist system [through the silencing of whatever minority he encounters that day]...
[replace racist for sexist, anti-gay, etc]
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tiburon
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:50 am |
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| Talbain wrote: |
I still think of racism as a culturally defined entity and it is perhaps why people find it so discomforting. It's not something internalized so much as constructed as part of the system in which we now live. Perhaps troublesome to Western philosophy as racism isn't an internalized monologue one can grapple with by their lonesome and come to conclusions about without the presence of others. White denial seems to reside a lot in that internal monologue.
A poor analogy but I see racism as an ocean and with each unmitigated attack, another drop gets added in. Really subverting it requires a huge push for people, due to its history and vastness. |
yea this
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tiburon
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:41 am |
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| Flylighter wrote: |
| tiburon wrote: |
| i'm not trying to target you here, i'm just wondering on what earth intention matters. |
No harm done! Yeah my next post clarified a bit (what I get for trying to type out meaningful textbytes between finals)- I feel like the intention matters to the definition of the word, but more importantly the intention matters in the approach to getting these people to stop.
For someone unfairly biased based on, say, race: you could explain how their stereotypes aren't true with examples, explain how decades of past bias contributed to shaping the current social landscape, point to how no reputable scientific studies show no meaningful difference between whatever whatever whatever. It may or may not have an effect, but it's directed at the root of the bias.
For someone just slinging the language to hurt feelings, you could do all of the above, and the response will almost certainly be along the lines of "yeah, so?" They know it's wrong. Effort would have to be directed at just how harassing and inappropriate it is to respond to disagreement like that, or what have you.
I get the feeling people think I'm trying to excuse some of these gamers or mitigate what they're doing, which is a little weird because I feel like I made it clear they're just as bad. It's just a more granular classification. |
yeah i got you. i've had some success confronting racism among people i play games with, and it very much depends on their mentality. i think there is definitely a difference between people who are doing it to be an asshole and people who were raised in a certain way or genuinely didn't know it wasn't that way.
anecdote 1: dude I was playing Halo with on Xbox Live a few years ago, starts talking about how Indian people are taking all the tech support jobs. I mention I'm indian, he kind of goes 'oh dude I had no idea' and then we had a discussion about immigration/growing economic opportunities/what have you.
anecdote 2: my grandmother, who grew up in 1940s india, upon hearing i have a black roommate: 'but don't they... steal? *looks around frightened, comically*' sweet lady, had to explain to her that she was fed a load of crap by the attitudes of her time.
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tiburon
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:28 am |
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i dont have the patience to go line by line, so tmkf: no
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