[FortNinety]

OKAY SERIOUSLY, HOW IN THE FUCK ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO CATCH FISH IN THE GAMECUBE VERSION, BECAUSE I'VE LITERALLY BEEN JUST SITTING BY THE DOCK WAITING FOR FISH TO BITE FOR AN HOUR NOW, AND ITS ABSOLUTELY INSANE THAT THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO CONTROL YOUR LINE, LET ALONE NOT BE ABLE TO SEE WHERE THE HOOK IS, AND WHEN I FINALLY GET A CATCH I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA HOW TO BRING THEM IN SO THEY ALWAYS GET LOOSE, YOUR SUPPOSED TO BRING THE LINE TOWARDS YOU, BUT NO MATTER HOW HARD OR SOFTLY I TRY, THE FUCKING THING ALWAYS SWIMS AWAY, AND I CAN'T FIND ANY ANSWERS SINCE EVERY FAQ IS ABOUT THE WII VERSION, AND THE FACT THAT I HAVE TO CONSULT ONE FOR A ZELDA GAME THIS EARLY INTO THINGS IS ALSO PISSING ME OFF, SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME BEFORE I THROW MY GAMECUBE OUT THE WINDOW AND SHOOT MYSELF.

Thank you.
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[Intentionally Wrong]

I wish I could help.

THINGS
things
ThinGs

Don't mind me.
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Obsequious pigs are not welcome in Mulravia.

[FortNinety]

Alright I managed to get it to fucking work. But seriously, an hour and fifteen minutes of waiting by the water and having fish get away, that is just plain ridiculous.
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[FortNinety]

Though what pisses me off the most is how when I first caught a fish and nothing happened, I had t discover via a FAQ that one has to catch a second fish before anything would be triggered (why couldn't the cat simply take the first one? and the idea that I have to feed a fucking cat so I can get some item so only then could I get a sword and leave the village and finally get on with the game is extremely retarded). But the best part was, I did catch a second fish, but because the cat wasn't around, his action didn't trigger, so I had to catch a thrid fish.

My interest in playing this game has been extremely diminished.
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[robert]

oh thank god i'm not the only one who had this problem, i felt like an idiot

when i couldn't get it to work for a while i spent like 20 minutes trying to find bait before i finally looked it up on gamefaqs

although i'm not too far into it, i think i can safely say this is by far the worst part of the game, you'll feel better when you get your sword and you actually start attacking things

[slipstream]

[robert]

i was referring to pretty much the whole start of the game when you're not doing anything but rounding up goats and wandering around actually

but yeah fishing is pretty boring, but maybe that's just me

[Intentionally Wrong]

Bobber fishing sucks. Fly fishing is where it's at.

I mean, yeah, bobber fishing would be a lot better if you didn't have to do it the first two times. I'm on the Wii version, and it took me a while to realize that I should pull up as soon as the bobber gets tugged under water, because I'm an idiot.

No, really, fly fishing is where it's at. Don't bother with the guide, though; she gives you a couple tips but she's not necessary, and not really worth the extra cash. You won't want her around if you ever find a sinking lure, either.
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Obsequious pigs are not welcome in Mulravia.

[tacotaskforce]

[showka]

Holy fuck you guys are right and this brings back some bad memories. I almost came here and left the same post FortNinety did when I started playing. Zelda TP is one of the best, fullest, and most well paced games ever (let alone Zelda game) but the beginning was stupid as hell and there was no way of knowing if you were doing everything wrong aside from trial and error.

Fishing is actually really simple but the directions you get are pure shit. I mean all you do is just continuously cast until a fish bites, then you press up on the C stick. You'd think that one of Link's merry friends could have told him something to that effect but those jerk offs are really good for nothing. I'm surprised that you actually have to catch two fish, I thought it was just a matter of the cat not being around during the first one, since there's no helpful hint or anything at all to tell you your doing the right thing.


Oh and guys did I mess something or does the game force you to buy a slingshot right at the start using rupees you've grown out of your ass? I mean isn't it strange that the little kids are like "Oh man, I can't get a slingshot, boo hoo hoo" and then you procure one using funds you just find lying around?

Yeah, this is an an incredible game. I agree with the idea that the very, very beginning is easily the worst part of it. It's a puzzle not because you're trying to do anything, but because you're trying to trigger the next story event so you can move on. I think I spent at least an hour just farting around because I had nothing to do.

[FortNinety]

[fundogmo]

At least on the Wii version, the fishing DOES get a billion times better (both in scope and controls), but it sort of has the opposite effect on me than it did in Ocarina. The fishing subsection is so grandiose that it feels overwhelming, and not really worth it to spend a billion trillion hours waiting on a billion trillion environmental variables to catch the best fish hidden somewhere in a pretty big area.

Compare this to Ocarina, and all you had to do was make it rain and stand on the one log in the center of the small pond with one of two lures. Or something similiar.

But anyway, you only have to fish to progress the story twice. The first time with the cat it is kind of painful because catching it twice doesn't make much sense, but the second time takes about three seconds if you do what everyone tells you to do.

[zak]

[showka]

[Mr. Toups]

It took me awhile to figure it out too, mostly because I couldn't get any fish to bite.

Whatever. It's over now, the game is awesome, etc etc etc. MAN THE FUCK UP and enjoy your goddamned zelda bitches!
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[another god]

I really like it because it's a big fat, "haha, duh, you stupid fucking idiot" part. I mean, all you do is cast and pull up. It makes a lot more sense in the Wii version, but like, you know... that's how you're supposed to play it.

[Cryo]

Egh, even in the Wii version, it felt like a "dee dee dee" moment to me, since I couldn't get a bloody fish out of the water for a good 15 minutes, since my timing was terrible.

[dmauro]

Fort, get a Wii.
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[showka]

[Pijaibros]

Fishing is really a rather effortless thing in this game. Though if you are playing on a lousy television where you can't see alot of the water detail it can be hard to tell when your bobber is sunk in to the water. They should've let us control the camera angle to make the bobber's depth easier to see. Still, becasue all you do is pull up when you have a bite, it's not too terrible a thing.

I'm playing the GC version, btw. All this indicated to me is that we're over due for a Get Bass! revival. I love that game, still.

Also the amusement games at Lake Hylia told me that we are way the fuck overdue for a new Pilotwings.

[Mr. Pointy]

I had trouble fishing in the Wii version, but I figured it out after about half an hour.
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[PANTS]------////////////////////

[Legal Step]

Fort this may be my favorite discussion of yours ever. I think GC Zelda fishing has an anti-Korean bias!
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[Mr. Mechanical]

I didn't have much of a problem fising in the beginning area at the start of the game, though I did have to use a FAQ to figure out that I had to catch two fish. Before that I figured the cat would just follow me to the place I was supposed to take it, but no dice.

Anyways, yeah, the opening portion is probably the weakest part of the game, at least compared to the rest that I've seen so far. I'm fifteen hours or so into the game, doing the twilight realm portion before the third dungeon (at least, if the pacing of the last two twilight realms/dungeons is anything to go by) and I've been having a pretty good time with it all. It's so expertly paced, especially for a Zelda game, things just keep moving along and happening and it never gets dull or tedious. And people keep saying it just gets better the further you go, so that sounds pretty swell.

Also, I love what they've done with the combat. The finishing move, the shield attack, etc. It's great and adds another layer of depth and interaction to things when you start engaging enemies. More toys to play around with, so to speak, which is a fitting analogy for the rest of the game actually what with how they've made it so each item has multiple uses. It's all still very lock-and-key but at least now there's more locks and less keys, if that makes any sense.
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[Broco]

I watched someone else start playing TP on the Wii for 10 minutes, and the point he started herding animals I thought to myself there and then that I didn't want to have anything to do with this game. There are few things that annoy me more than RPGs that open in peaceful villages.

I think OoT is overrated mainly because its pacing is far too slow; the game makes you wait constantly, whether it's to read useless dialogs you've seen a million times before, or walking around in empty environments between monsters. The overall effect I get from it is lethargy. I have the impression that TP suffers from exactly the same problem.

[showka]

The impression is wrong (IMO). The opening of the game is boring, but I'm speaking here as a guy who was 15 when OOT came out and wanted it desperately, and then was really dissapointed by it and thought it was just okay (took me over half a year to beat it, and back then I had time to play videogames!). Twilight Princess is easily the best paced Zelda game ever made and the reason why is that the game is filled (at least until the 3rd dungeon, as far as I know) with scripted events. I guess what I'm saying is stuff is always happening and it does a great job at staying interesting the whole time.

[Broco]

Hmm, alright. I may set my reservations aside and give it a shot when I get a Wii. It's mostly that after all the "rah rah best game evar" I keep hearing about OoT, I'm wary of praise for TP, which might be coming from the same people who overlook the same flaws. But if you say you didn't like OoT that much either, that's encouraging.

[Mr. Toups]

[Mr Mustache]

Ocarina of Time had some very nice moments.
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The people are like wool to me.

[slipstream]

[showka]

I think why TP succeeds where OOT failed is that OOT fleshed itself out by saying, "Hey, guess what! Now you get to go find / collect all this shit!" Where as TP, since it was in development for almost as long as OOT but all of the major gameplay design decisions were already made, just filled itself up with premium content. In fact, even though the direction of the game seemed like such a cop out initially, it turns out that even in the early stages they had some good ideas for where to go, and if this game was released a year or so ago it would probably have stood up well to Wind Waker. As it is though they seemed to have really fleshed it out to keep it from making me bored.

And as Toups has pointed out, the puzzles in this one are much better designed than the ones from the past. Even though the game is so big, I'm guessing there was a lot of boring crappy puzzles they weeded out as time went on.

[[ + -- oo ]]

According to the developer interviews at Wii.com, the first section of the game received a major overhaul at the last minute, to make it a better introduction to the Wii remote.

I guess I'm lucky I didn't get hung up on that fishing thing, but I could tell it was a little finnicky. I mean, why does the cat need to be there to catch the fish? Since Link is trying to catch a fish for the cat, why doesn't he just grab it off the hook and carry it around until you find the cat? Instead, the correct action can, seemingly at random, produce the wrong outcome. It's confusing, and bad design.

Regardless of the contrivance of those first tasks, they do effectively introduce Link as a guy who goes out of his way for others. It trains the player to look for things that are lacking and incomplete, and try to solve them. Even stuff which doesn't appear to be in the player's immediate interest will somehow benefit him.

This is what gives the Zelda games such a nice social message.

[RecessRapist]

So is there a Hylian Loach in TP too?
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[Cryo]

Yep.

[Pavement]

Yeah the beginning was pretty awful, and it effectively killed my momentum going into the start of the game. The cat puzzle made three mistakes:

1. When you learn about calling and throwing hawks, the camera centers on the cat, suggesting through Zelda logic that you should throw the hawk at the cat and have it carry the cat home. Okay, maybe that was pretty stupid of me, the next mistakes are more serious.

2. No instructions for the fishing rod, I tried to fish OoT style, I didn't realize you had to wait for the bobber to sink, etc.

3. Why do you have to catch two fish? There is no response from the cat for catching the first fish. I was so sure I'd done something wrong and I kept looking through my inventory for a way to throw the fish onto the ground beside the cat, just how you throw the fish in front of Jabu-Jabu in OoT. Turns out I have to do the same thing again, for no reason.

For a logical, easy game like Zelda, this was a terrible, discouraging opening. I'm not surprised to read that the beginning was rushed and redone at the last second.

It reminds me of the opening to Majora's Mask. That game started off with a bunch of inane NPC puzzles similar to those in Twilight Princess, but in MM the opening had a purpose in its unintuitive structure. MM threw you into finding a fairy fountain, recovering some fairies hidden in the main town in order to gain the ability to blow bubbles, popping the balloon of a kid in order to provoke him, playing tag with a gang of kids in order to open a passage leading to an observatory, borrowing a telescope to look at the moon, prompting a tear to fall off the moon, selling the tear to a talking plant burroved under Clock Town in exchange for access to a tower, which was the highest point in Termina and the closest to where the moon would fall, all so you could find an Ocarina and play the Song of Time from OoT, setting the world back 72 hours. The average Zelda player probably got lost on that convoluted intro. The player would scramble around on the last day, with emotional piano chords playing and the moon literally shaking the world. Then the moon would crash in terrifying fashion, leading the player back to the Dawn of the First Day. Even if the player figured out the puzzle at the start the first time through, it probably would take much of the 3 Day period, and the sense of urgency would be there right off the bat.

Anyway the openings in MM and TP are very similar in that they start with badly explained NPC interaction and then throw you into an alternate form (a Deku and a wolf, respectively) before finally setting you free. However, MM's opening gives the game an edge that lasts until completion. TP's opening gives the game incompetency that lasts for about 5 hours.
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The longer you play this game, the worse it gets.

[phaded]

[unhappy days]

use the bird with the monkey to get the cradle to use with the lady then use the fishing rod with the fish to get a fish then use the fish with the cat and use the cat to get a slingshot then use the slingshot with the hive

>:(

[phaded]

The face Link makes when the cat steals the second fish was pretty golden.
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[GcDiaz]

So then...is the GC version as good as the Wii version, sans controls? I'd like to know which investment of various moneys is actually worth making.
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Wii Code: 2490 9909 8512 0280
PSN: GcDiaz

[Mr. Mechanical]

[unhappy days]

[Persona-sama]