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Film narrative thread (no hatin')

 
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Ebrey



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Film narrative thread (no hatin')    Reply with quote

There were actually a few kernels of ideas in the axe's David Lynch thread, even if they were outnumbered 10:1 by crap. I think we could have a good discussion about it.

Someone in that thread said that films that are not demanding are demeaning, which I strongly disagree with. I rarely find any films demanding, narratively (though they might be emotionally draining). If the plot is confusing, I assume that I am not meant to understand it to give it a dream-like quality or other effect. The movie Syriana, for example, was far too complex to be understood in one viewing to give the viewer a feeling for how complicated the Mideast is. I have no interest in piecing together the plot of confusing movies.

Trying to piece together a story from nonsensical imagery is less satisfying than simply writing my own story. Most adults would rather draw a picture than complete a "connect the dots" diagram, and the more annoying art films are "connect the dots" narratives.

There are times when I care about the characters enough to try to understand the symbolism of a dream sequence, for instance. But caring about the characters requires clear, powerful character development to have already happened. Films rarely have enough time to include clear character development and oblique dream sequences, though TV does: the Sopranos does a great job of it. I've come to think that TV can be experimental far more effectively than film, which is why it's a shame that movies generally take more chances.

Let's continue the interesting discussion that was going on, without the hatin'.
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Ebrey



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:53 am        Reply with quote

rabite gets whacked! wrote:
No hatin' (no hatin'!), but I can't help but feel like this is another ebrey Buffy thread. Dude, you're right in that films don't typically provide a fully nuanced narrative story, in terms of writing and dialog. They typically run 2 hours to a TV show's 13-100, so that's a given. But the fact that you're still looking for them to be the focus of "annoying art films" says something about your own predisposition toward a narrative focus in art, and you seem to get irritated when it fails to make a strong showing in a form that's not well suited for it. So I'd recommend you read more books and watch more TV, really, because I think you'll just be happier that way.


I like tons of movies, including some art films. There are plenty of movie directors who are great at telling narratives: Akira Kurosawa, Howard Hawks, Woody Allen, Clint Eastwood, Francis Ford Coppola, and Martin Scorcese for instance. I'm also fine with movies that are more about a mood than a story, ie Dazed and Confused (though that makes use of mini-narratives to illustrate the mood).

I take movies' limitation to mean the opposite of what you're suggesting. You think it means that they don't have time for a narrative, whereas I think they ONLY have time for a narrative. Whereas TV shows are free to do artsy experiments because we care about the characters enough to decipher them.
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Ebrey



Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:49 am        Reply with quote

CubaLibre wrote:
Incidentally, comic books fall prey to many of the same vices, for many of the same reasons (namely, their serialization). They retain a little more artistic merit, for me, because it's easier for an artist to get away with doing something creative because it doesn't necessary cost the producers any more money, except perhaps in lost sales because people don't like "experimental" stuff. But there's a bit more wiggle room.

In general, though, I find one-shot graphic novels or pre-planned miniseries to be far superior, just like movies and one-season animes.


The longest American comic (Cerebus) tells 99.9% of its audience to fuck off, so I don't really agree with this. In fact, I can't think of any comics that have run for decades (like American Splendor and Love & Rockets) that cater to their readers. I don't consider Superman, Batman, etc. to be one long comic considering how damn incoherent their overall stories are.

I find the the "graphic novel" movement pretty damn silly, since most of them are around the length of a movie. Half the point of making a comic is not having to tell a movie-length story! If "graphic novels" were actually novel length I might find it a more positive movement...
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