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Ashura
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: Far East of Eden
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:47 am |
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| Guys, don't force me to make you guys sit in the corner of my thread and think about what you've done. :( Be civil, ok. |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:22 am |
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| showka wrote: |
| CubaLibre wrote: |
I don't really understand these complaints about "hey there is not enough Transformers in my Transformers movie."
Nigga no one cares about the Transformers. No one cares about giant living robots engaged in intergalactic civil war. They care about kids in high school who look sort of like them, when they were in high school. They also care about shit blowing up. So, when shit has to blow up, the Transformers are around to do the job. Otherwise we're gonna watch high school kids.
This is an ENDURING PRINCIPLE OF HOLLYWOOD MOVIES. It has always been this way and will always this way, because regular (read: most) people care about other people more than any science fiction you care to create.
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Observing this principle is a symptom of weakness.
The trick would be to make the audience relate to the robots as if they were people. This was beyond Michael Bay's ability so he wisely choice to not even attempt it.
The resulting movie was not bad, but when you base a Transformers movie around a dozen human characters instead of the Transformers themselves the concept falls short of its potential. |
True! So it was a Pretty Good movie. And hey, you know, I'm okay with that.
On the other hand, it could've been a lot worse - he could've focused more on the Transformers without the skill to make people relate to them like they would relate to people. And that would have been just fucking awful. That would have been fanfiction.
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rf
Joined: 14 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:40 am |
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Still haven't seen the movie and don't plan to, but I glanced at the soundtrack on the iTunes store, and the theme song is pretty funny. It makes "Transformers--more than meets the eye ... Transformers--robots in disguise" sound like some spacey, psychedelic insight.
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Westacular
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo-ish, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:28 am |
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| Axelay 2 wrote: |
| And would it be nitpicking to say, it's just lazy to make creatures that live on a planet with no atmosphere and travel through space (we even see Starscream) be vulnerable to freezing? |
Ha! Good catch. I didn't think of that one. |
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Hot Stott Bot
banned
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:33 am |
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| Westacular wrote: |
| Axelay 2 wrote: |
| And would it be nitpicking to say, it's just lazy to make creatures that live on a planet with no atmosphere and travel through space (we even see Starscream) be vulnerable to freezing? |
Ha! Good catch. I didn't think of that one. |
Except not really, learn more physics, lol.
(Space does not cool things off, it is a lack of energy, things will simply dissapate their energy slowly... something with an internal power source will last in space without changing temperature for quite a while... actively cooling something down is a very different sort of process...)
But really, I think it is a silly point to bring up in the first place, because it is not something that makes a bad movie. No one really cares. It is the sort of point on which people attempt to justify their dislike of a movie, not the thing that makes a movie bad, if you undertstand my meaning...
Last edited by Hot Stott Bot on Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:39 am; edited 5 times in total |
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Westacular
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo-ish, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:34 am |
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| CubaLibre wrote: |
| On the other hand, it could've been a lot worse - he could've focused more on the Transformers without the skill to make people relate to them like they would relate to people. And that would have been just fucking awful. That would have been fanfiction. |
Instead we have a movie focused on "people" made without the skill to make us relate to them like people.
The humans here were bigger cartoon characters than the entire cast of Ratatouille.
Michael Bay's Transformers essentially follows the format of a latter-day Godzilla movie. That format isn't necessarily a bad thing... But the material here lends itself so much more to a comic book movie format.
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Westacular
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo-ish, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:00 am |
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| Hot Stott Bot wrote: |
| Westacular wrote: |
| Axelay 2 wrote: |
| And would it be nitpicking to say, it's just lazy to make creatures that live on a planet with no atmosphere and travel through space (we even see Starscream) be vulnerable to freezing? |
Ha! Good catch. I didn't think of that one. |
Except not really, learn more physics, lol. |
You ... you're not seriously trying to get into this argument, are you? Learn more physics!?
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Hot Stott Bot
banned
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:18 pm |
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What? An argument? Not really.
I'm merely saying that you're calling it stupid for this silly reason, and not only are you wrong, but on top of that it was a stupid point to bring up in the first place. |
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Axelay 2
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:35 pm |
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| Hot Stott Bot wrote: |
| Westacular wrote: |
| Axelay 2 wrote: |
| And would it be nitpicking to say, it's just lazy to make creatures that live on a planet with no atmosphere and travel through space (we even see Starscream) be vulnerable to freezing? |
Ha! Good catch. I didn't think of that one. |
Except not really, learn more physics, lol.
(Space does not cool things off, it is a lack of energy, things will simply dissapate their energy slowly... something with an internal power source will last in space without changing temperature for quite a while... actively cooling something down is a very different sort of process...)
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As machines that live and survive in the absolute zero of space, a sudden drop in temperature from Antarctica or some liquid nitro (probably the equivalent of a cool breeze by their standards) shouldn't cause a sudden case of cryostasis as it does in the movie. That was the point.
| Hot Stott Bot wrote: |
But really, I think it is a silly point to bring up in the first place, because it is not something that makes a bad movie. No one really cares. It is the sort of point on which people attempt to justify their dislike of a movie, not the thing that makes a movie bad, if you undertstand my meaning...
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I only mentioned in the first place because I felt it was indicative of how half-assed the script, the plot, and *gasp* attention to source material was in the first place. I could go into pages about how absurd and unneccesary the backstory of Great-Grandpa Witwicky was, or why in a movie about fighting robots, there's no fighting between them for like two hours, or how our only introduction to half of the Decepticons ran like the last frame of a car commercial with their name appearing below them instead of the fine print, or how incomprehensible most of the final battle sequence is cut.
And I could go on...
There's plenty of films with flaws that I can enjoy, but for more reasons than I care to list, I just can't like this one. |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:36 pm |
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| Westacular wrote: |
| CubaLibre wrote: |
| On the other hand, it could've been a lot worse - he could've focused more on the Transformers without the skill to make people relate to them like they would relate to people. And that would have been just fucking awful. That would have been fanfiction. |
Instead we have a movie focused on "people" made without the skill to make us relate to them like people.
The humans here were bigger cartoon characters than the entire cast of Ratatouille.
Michael Bay's Transformers essentially follows the format of a latter-day Godzilla movie. That format isn't necessarily a bad thing... But the material here lends itself so much more to a comic book movie format. |
I mean, okay, but the bazillions of dollars the movie is making disagrees with you.
I was talking about the reactions of "normal people." Like I said, I found the movie enjoyable but nothing spectacular. In particular I felt like Michael Bay was treating me like an idiot (what was with that George Bush crack? I mean really?). I was just listing a general principle of commercial filmmaking, not attaching a value judgment to it, one way or the other.
Except here is a value judgment: I guarantee you that a Transfan-made Transformers movie with a Michael Bay budget would be infinitely worse. That's all.
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Let's Play, starring me. |
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Westacular
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Waterloo-ish, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:13 pm |
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It would be utterly self-absorbed and cheesy as hell. And probably a lot of fun, even if it wasn't for the right reasons.
| Hot Stott Bot wrote: |
| I'm merely saying that you're calling it stupid for this silly reason, and not only are you wrong, but on top of that it was a stupid point to bring up in the first place. |
Hold on a sec there Franziska
I didn't catch your edit with more of an explanation before I made my post. I've now looked very very roughly at the numbers involved and I'll concede the point, more or less. Supposing the robots run at room temperature and their internal power keeps them warm, the rate of heat loss for sitting around in deep space is rather dramatically less than the rate under a spray of liquid nitrogen. The situation is a bit more murky for sitting with a bit of ice in what appeared to be a giant walk-in freezer, or the conditions in which Megatron would have frozen in the first place. (The heat loss that they'd experience on Mars during the night is another thing to consider if someone with way, way too much time on their hands wanted to work out if all this was consistent.)
In any case: I agree that this is a silly minute thing that really shouldn't affect one's opinion on the film. If someone's inclined to be bothered by plot holes or inconsistencies there's far bigger ones to choose.
One thing I think everyone can agree on is this thread is going in circles. |
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chevluh
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:20 pm |
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| Axelay 2 wrote: |
As machines that live and survive in the absolute zero of space, a sudden drop in temperature from Antarctica or some liquid nitro (probably the equivalent of a cool breeze by their standards) shouldn't cause a sudden case of cryostasis as it does in the movie. |
Actually, so little is exposed about how they travel in space that for all you know they may be in stasis when they're up there, with only some minimal system activity to guide them. It's not like hibernation during space travel is an unusual idea. |
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