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shrugtheironteacup
man of tomorrow
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: a meat
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 Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:06 pm |
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| boojiboy7 wrote: |
| shrugtheironteacup wrote: |
And in context it's just overwhelming internisus.
I'm as big an Eliot dork as the next guy but do I really need to have a character quoting "The Wasteland" when something reminds her of it, followed up by a sentient train quoting "The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock" a hundred pages later or so for no reason other than the author thought it would be cute?
Basically the whole series is Stephen King thinking he's horribly clever entirely to piss me off.
Me.
Personally.
That son of a bitch. |
king went kojima? |
But The Dark Tower is one of the very few things in life that run longer than an average MGS cut scene.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:17 am |
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| I spent a good chunk of the day investigating most of your suggestions, my friends. Many appear to be quite exciting! I went to the bookstore with my newfound knowledge, found even more exciting things, and ultimately came home with The Knight by Gene Wolfe, who is definitely above this thread but is too exciting to pass up. I can't wait to read The Book of the New Sun, but I recognize that I need to build myself up to it. Thanks! I'll buy more when I'm on a looser budget. |
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Martial Loh
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:21 am |
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auugh.. The conclusion to Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe annoyed me greatly.. What is it with fantasy authors & lame endings? It put me off trying out any of his other books...
Though Shrugtheironteacup....was it you who said that Wizard Knight was like Wolfe-lite, in a previous book thread? |
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shrugtheironteacup
man of tomorrow
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: a meat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:47 am |
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| Martial Loh wrote: |
auugh.. The conclusion to Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe annoyed me greatly.. What is it with fantasy authors & lame endings? It put me off trying out any of his other books...
Though Shrugtheironteacup....was it you who said that Wizard Knight was like Wolfe-lite, in a previous book thread? |
That was me, yeah.
Not nearly as deep/interesting/rewarding as a lot of his other works, etc.
For my part I did start with The Book of the New Sun and I don't think it scarred me too much.
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:25 pm |
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| falsedan wrote: |
| He is writing for Young Adults so I am OK with heavy-handedness. |
Kids and teens are complete idiots now?
Anyone who doesn't like Starship Troopers can get fucked.
Recommendations: Brian Lumley's Necroscope series is a fun teen horror/thriller series. It's all about Cold War and vampire shenanigans, with a lead character that can contact the dead, leading to all sorts of hijinks (In this universe, one a person dies, they keep on whatever work they were doing while alive and the lead character can tap into all and any of this). The writing style is aimed towards teens for sure, but it can get very clever in parts and features all sorts of awesome ideas.
Also, Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell is a worthy read. Terry Pratchett novels are a good bet too.
Seconding Gene Wolfe too.
And, I don't know, look into some comics too?
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Predator Goose
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Location: Oversensitive Pedantic Ninny
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:34 pm |
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You've got a gift Dracko. Not a particularly enviable gift, but still a gift.
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falsedan
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:46 pm |
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| Dracko wrote: |
| Kids and teens are complete idiots now? |
NO just me apparently SHEESH ;_;
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haircute
heteronormative jerk
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Topeka, KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:44 am |
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| shrugtheironteacup wrote: |
| haircute wrote: |
| Either Shadow and Claw or The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe. Actually, change that "or" to "and". |
Gene Wolfe isn't "low fiction" okay haircute I will fight you. :( |
oh man i didnt mean that. i was just talking about those books because they rock!
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Duckzero
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Microsoft Land
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:27 am |
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Does anyone know of any good political/social fiction? That's really what I enjoy as non-fiction, so I hope you guys have got some good recommendations!
Also! My gf wants me to see the newest harry potter film with her, but I have not read any of the books (don't really plan to either), what's the best way to get a synopsis in the shortest amount of time?
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Martial Loh
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:10 pm |
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wikipedia is always a great way to catch up in any mainstream series..
I honestly think the latest film is more or less quite easy to follow if you hadn't read the books...
my somewhat-bad memory handicaps me to the extent of not having read the book and most of it made sense. Just stare at the zappy effects if you get bored of the plot. |
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CubaLibre
the road lawyer
Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Location: Balmer
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:20 pm |
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| Duckzero wrote: |
| Also! My gf wants me to see the newest harry potter film with her, but I have not read any of the books (don't really plan to either), what's the best way to get a synopsis in the shortest amount of time? |
If you've seen the other movies, you'll be fine. (I've read um 2/3 of the first book or something before I gave up.)
If you haven't even seen those, then it won't matter at all. You'll still be able to pick up on the broad strokes of the plot and see Gary Oldman punch a mofucka.
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skelethulu
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: OAKLAND
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:43 pm |
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I picked up Wizard Knight (in individual paperback) and the Book of the New Sun (in one giant hardcover). I haven't ever read any Gene Wolfe before, but he's quickly becoming Very Important to me. Glad to see everybody here seems to also love him.
Also, he looks like True Royalty:
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haircute
heteronormative jerk
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: Topeka, KS
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:40 pm |
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| skelethulu wrote: |
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HA!
I actually had no idea what he looked like. For some reason...I figured he'd be wearing a baseball hat ALL the time.
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:45 am |
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| Duckzero wrote: |
| what's the best way to get a synopsis in the shortest amount of time? |
/b/
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slipstream
hates LOTR films
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:56 am |
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[quote="Dracko"]
| falsedan wrote: |
Anyone who doesn't like Starship Troopers can get fucked.
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Coming from the Nazi sympathizer, this is hardly surprising.
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:42 am |
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zing
Not that there's anything Nazi about Starship Troopers, but don't let that stop you from dodging its inherent ideas and pretending there's no such thing as conflict in the sum of human experience.
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slipstream
hates LOTR films
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:04 pm |
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the plot is flimsy, the characters are little more than mouthpieces for Heinlein's ideas. Unless a military utopia sounds like your idea of what society *should* be, the novel is a waste of time.
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Gouki
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Australia.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 pm |
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Traitor by Matthew Stover.
It's a Star Wars book, yeah. But, I'll be damned if it isn't one of the most compelling books I've ever read. It has almost nothing to do with the movies, and features none of the characters from said movies. (His Episode III novelisation is also really good, fleshes out the movie, and is arguably better in some ways.)
Timothy Zahn's work outside of Star Wars is also really great, especially Icarus Hunt and Manta's Gift.
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Dracko
a sapphist fool
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:47 pm |
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| slipstream wrote: |
| Unless a military utopia sounds like your idea of what society *should* be, the novel is a waste of time. |
Starship Troopers does not pass itself off as being an utopia, military or otherwise. It's definitely more of an essay in sci-fi trappings than an actual piece of complex fiction, sure, but that doesn't mean it has nothing to say.
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another god
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:22 pm |
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| slipstream wrote: |
| the plot is flimsy, the characters are little more than mouthpieces for Heinlein's ideas. Unless a military utopia sounds like your idea of what society *should* be, the novel is a waste of time. |
Troopers is more about struggle against odds than anything else. And it does a good job.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:17 am |
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| Just so everyone knows, I've read The Wizard Knight, and I'll never forget it. |
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dark steve
secretary of good times
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: long live the new flesh
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:27 am |
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| slipstream wrote: |
| the plot is flimsy, the characters are little more than mouthpieces for Heinlein's ideas. Unless a military utopia sounds like your idea of what society *should* be, the novel is a waste of time. |
okay for the record
is starship troopers ironic or not |
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dark steve
secretary of good times
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: long live the new flesh
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 am |
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| sync swim won't tell me |
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slipstream
hates LOTR films
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:35 am |
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the general consensus is that heinlein wrote it just to play around with some ideas of a meritocracy. Heinlein was generally otherwise a Libertarian in most respects. But I am not sure that the four out of five US military academies that have Troopers in their curriculum are teaching it ironically. But I don't know that they're not, so.
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sync-swim
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: scissorgun
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:46 am |
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I can't remember whether Heinlein really did have one of those out-of-the-blue swings to the left in his midlife personal politics the way Gene Wolfe and a lot of other American sci-fi authors do.
Low fiction is W.G. Sebald, right? |
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Baron Patsy
whiny, oversensitive, socially awkward
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:04 am |
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| internisus wrote: |
| Just so everyone knows, I've read The Wizard Knight, and I'll never forget it. |
would you recommend it? I assume so, but I've been craving some good fiction lately, and I've heard many good things about that series (some in this thread!). |
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wpham
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:40 am |
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| sync-swim wrote: |
Low fiction is W.G. Sebald, right? |
There was a piece in an issue of The Believer about The Rings of Saturn and I have to be honest, it made my brain hurt.
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internisus
shafer sephiroth
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:41 am |
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| Baron Patsy wrote: |
| internisus wrote: |
| Just so everyone knows, I've read The Wizard Knight, and I'll never forget it. |
would you recommend it? I assume so, but I've been craving some good fiction lately, and I've heard many good things about that series (some in this thread!). |
I would. I would recommend it heartily and unequivocally. It appears lighter and simpler than it is, and much positive and negative criticism I have found online seems to miss the point entirely, focusing on writing styles and matters of presentation as though they had nothing to do with what is written. The Wizard Knight is unforgettable and also mysterious, and you should read it and read it with care--not merely to solve its riddles but to savor its magic, which is more than abundant. It is a great boon, an inspiration of hope and sadness in a beautiful but chaotic world where even the good often wrongfully worship the evil out of fear. It is a triumph and may be the only hero story anyone need read. If you let it, it can even make you a better man.
Yes, I would recommend it. |
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shrugtheironteacup
man of tomorrow
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: a meat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:23 pm |
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| internisus wrote: |
| Baron Patsy wrote: |
| internisus wrote: |
| Just so everyone knows, I've read The Wizard Knight, and I'll never forget it. |
would you recommend it? I assume so, but I've been craving some good fiction lately, and I've heard many good things about that series (some in this thread!). |
I would. I would recommend it heartily and unequivocally. It appears lighter and simpler than it is, and much positive and negative criticism I have found online seems to miss the point entirely, focusing on writing styles and matters of presentation as though they had nothing to do with what is written. The Wizard Knight is unforgettable and also mysterious, and you should read it and read it with care--not merely to solve its riddles but to savor its magic, which is more than abundant. It is a great boon, an inspiration of hope and sadness in a beautiful but chaotic world where even the good often wrongfully worship the evil out of fear. It is a triumph and may be the only hero story anyone need read. If you let it, it can even make you a better man.
Yes, I would recommend it. |
And Wolfe has better, still.
...
Just don't read Castleview.
Ever.
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Martial Loh
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: London, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:59 pm |
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Even though I hate the outcome of Wizard Knight, I'd still recommend reading it. It has a very rich & saturated feel to it.
I've just started Dark Tower book 6... it certainly reads a lot looser than the greatness that is the Wolves of Calla.. |
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shrugtheironteacup
man of tomorrow
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Location: a meat
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:04 pm |
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Speaking of endings: It's funny, for all my complaints about The Dark Tower I don't actually dislike the Ultimate Fate of Roland, which actually seemed quite appropriate, and seems to be be a big point of contention for a lot of other people.
I just hated everything else. (?)
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falsedan
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:04 pm |
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Brothers I am sorely tempted by The Italian Boss's Secretary Mistress from Mills and Boon. Please convince me it is worth £1.50
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internisus
shafer sephiroth
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:05 am |
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I went to Barnes and Noble today and purchased the following:
His Dark Materials box set
Lord of the Flies 50th Anniversary hardcover edition
Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin |
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wpham
Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:16 am |
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| internisus wrote: |
I went to Barnes and Noble today and purchased the following:
His Dark Materials box set
Lord of the Flies 50th Anniversary hardcover edition
Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin |
Let me know what you think of Snow Crash. I'm really fond of it, but I don't know how much of that is nostalgia.
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Nate
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:44 am |
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I liked the ending of The Dark Tower. I didn't really like the two books leading up to it though. After taking so much time and care for the first 4 books, he really rushed through the last ones too quickly. It lost all sense of... epicness or something. Didn't he rush through them because he was retiring from writing or something? Only he has another new book every time I go to the bookstore, it seems like.
Anyway, I still like Stephen King well enough.
Good call on Snow Crash, above. I'm a huge Neal Stephenson fan. Snow Crash is silly and awesome. If you continue reading his books up until the Baroque cycle, you'll even find he eventually figures out how to write endings.
I'm not very well read in the swords-and-magic doorstop-fantasy type books, but I'm currently enjoying the crap out of the Malazan Book Of The Fallen series from Steven Erikson. G. R. R. Martin fell flat for me, though, which makes me somewhat rare I guess?
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is, thumbs up for Steves!
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"There are billions of conscientious body cells oxidating away day and night like dumb animals at their complicated job of keeping me alive and healthy, and every one is a potential traitor and foe." - Joseph Heller, Catch-22 |
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IIOIOOIOO
double banned
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:47 am |
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| U gaiz ever read the Clive Cussler books about Dirk Pitt? NUMA 4 Lyfe! |
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IIOIOOIOO
double banned
Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:48 am |
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| shrugtheironteacup wrote: |
Speaking of endings: It's funny, for all my complaints about The Dark Tower I don't actually dislike the Ultimate Fate of Roland, which actually seemed quite appropriate, and seems to be be a big point of contention for a lot of other people.
I just hated everything else. (?) |
The key to the dark tower was to:
a) Wait the actual years between books...
b) Only pay nothing for each book.
Also, the comic book of it is rad. |
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slipstream
hates LOTR films
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:34 am |
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| internisus wrote: |
| Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson |
return that and get Zodiac instead
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Renfrew
catchy, and giger-esque
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Location: Hometown: America
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:53 am |
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Is Dracko the only one besides me who has read Terry Pratchett's Discworld? Its a pretty funny series. Its kind of like a fantasy version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Tim Power's books are pretty good too. I have only read On Stranger Tides (part of Ron Gilbert's inspiration for Monkey Island) and The Anubis Gates. Both were very fun reads.
Roger Zelazney is probably my favorite Sci-fi writer. You should give Lord of Light a try.
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darthjim
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Location: Cumbria, UK
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:10 am |
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| Renfrew wrote: |
| Is Dracko the only one besides me who has read Terry Pratchett's Discworld? Its a pretty funny series. Its kind of like a fantasy version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. |
No indeed, I personally own every one of Pratchett Senior's tomes. A joy and constant delight they are, too. Lightness of touch, social commentary to guffaw at (Hello 'Jingo'), series in-jokes ("Sausage-inna-bun") and some very recognisable characters make them, in my (mostly) humble opinion, the pinnacle of modern fantasy writing.
Not sure the comparison to Hikers holds water though. Adams was willfully bizarre in a way that Pratchett has never been. His characters were often annoyingly cold too, whereas Pratchett clearly loves his cast.
Still, both are Required Reading (oh yeah, feel them capitals drop in place) for anyone with half a brain. Or, even better, a full one.
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Renfrew
catchy, and giger-esque
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Location: Hometown: America
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:27 am |
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I've read all the senior ones and now I'm on the second junior book. They have chapters like Going Postal did. Its very odd.
Whats your favorite? When I was reading them, whichever one I had just finished was always my favorite, until Night Watch blew everything else out of the water. The stuff that came after it was still good, but Holy God Night Watch was fantastic.
I just use Hitchhiker's as a comparison because they are both more tongue in cheek than their contemperaries.
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Last edited by Renfrew on Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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