[Kipple]

Finally played the demo, after about two days of attempting and failing to download it.

It was maybe better than I'd expected! I didn't actually feel rushed from place to place, and went really slowly through it, looking at all the art 'n shit. I picked up the tommy gun but somehow managed to finish before realizing that I hadn't even bothered to try firing it. Too distracted by the atmospheric awesomeness, which is a good sign I think. Very linear, but then again it's a demo with about 20 minutes of content.

The end video was actually very intriguing even though the quality sucked. Apparently you eventually interact with the ghost-things? Very interesting, but then again I've never minded spoilers myself. Make sure you stay on the title screen for a while until that video plays, too. That one's even better (and spoiler-free), despite not being actual gameplay.

I loved the security drones; after seeing boring-ass security drones in game after game from Perfect Dark to Half-life 2, I'm pleasantly surprised that these ones have so much character to them. And I don't really mind that they are "bribeable" since really that's no more and no less immersion-breaking than the silly (but fun enough) hacking minigame.

Yeah I think I'm going to bite on the limited edition. I'm a sucker for Art Deco & Objectivism.

[firenze]

[DaleNixon]

[boojiboy7]

Ayn Rand is one of my favorite comedy writers.

[Predator Goose]

[dhex]

content part of posting:
when is the motherfucking pc demo coming out? since the game is hitting stores here round the 21st ish (dunno if i'll actually be able to get a copy that day but still) i don't think they can wait that much longer. i really want to see how this runs on my setup.

and i don't want to feel left out anymore.

non content part:

[Predator Goose]

[boojiboy7]

all i remember is that there isn't a single sex scene in Atlas Shrugged (which, for a book not about sex, had a shitload of them) in which Dangy didn't seem like she got off on the ability of her partner to fuck her against her will.

Certainly sends an odd message about sexuality, since both her and the people she fucks are supposed to be paragons of human virtue.

[dessgeega]

a rape fantasy (even several!) doesn't constitute a desire to actually be raped.

i've never read ayn rand and i'm not sure how i feel about her.
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[boojiboy7]

[Shapermc]

[dhex]

from what i understand, rand was into the rough stuff. that's basically the long and short of her defense of those scenes as well, minus the personal details. (these were simpler times after all, etc etc blah blah blah)

but most of this is motivated because she's rand and rand is weird and pushes buttons in people (including myself) seeing as no one gets up on ulysses (anymore i mean) because bloom basically sexually harasses gertie and beats off in front of her at the beach. the most buttons that joyce pushes is the too long didn't read crew.

anyhoo you guys have read the response by levine to the objectivist center forum, right? dracko posted them on tgq so i repost here:

http://objectivistcenter.org/cs/forums/318/ShowPost.aspx

someone go post them somewhere else and get your lolz on. levine handled the whole thing pretty well actually.

edit:

[dessgeega]

[boojiboy7]

Oh, I cna understand bieng into rough stuff, and that is fine. It is just that Dagny, in AS, seems to like having a sexual partner that rapes her. Literally, too, not even as a fantasy. When she knows it isn't rape, it doesn't work for her (when Rearden lets up on her, she leaves, pretty much). And she is given as the ideal woman.

Yeah, it is a little troubling.

I think the reason such things don't bother me with Joyce is that Bloom is not meant to be someone we look up to. He is a perv, and he knows it, and Joyce wants us to know him as such. That he masturbates in front of a girl with some sort of physical developmental issue (she has a fake leg, right?) is just the most outward sign of how messed up his understanding of sexuality is. Hell, Circe dives right into it, and if you can read that section and not think the man has some problems, well...

Ulysses is also a lot shorter than Atlas Shrugged.

[boojiboy7]

[boojiboy7]

[Predator Goose]

One big problem, with the sex in Atlas shrugged in general and the fantasy excuse, is how tied to her philosophy the sex is. This isn't a sexual fantasy as far as Rand is concerned, this is how sex should be. Or at least, that's the feeling I got from her book.

Hell, that's part of the problem with her philosophy. She treats it as a universal proof and applies it to everything. It's like she baked a really good cake (or bad, whatever), and then tried to use it to do auto repair.

Edit: You could argue that this is young Dagny that we're talking about, so her ideas about sexuality aren't the full embodiment of Rand's philosophy. But you've got to be able to overlook things when you want to laugh at Rand. Just like with a lot of good jokes. You're not worried that a dog can't talk, even if it's the punchline.
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I can no longer shop happily.

[SuperWes]

[Worm]

So, basically it's a free Nintendo DS Madden? Scintillating.

[yellowoystercult]

I played the demo and loved the art (Metropolis!) and the atmosphere (Django! bathysphere! diving suit!) so much, I deleted it immediately after playing it so as not to ruin the experience when I get my Limited Edition next week.

But now I hear I can lightning zap those security drones and get them to shoot the Splicers for me. So now I have to download it again. You guys are fuckers.

This thread is also making me want to read some Rand, but I just started reading again, and I don't want anything to turn me off. I'm enjoying my rediscovered literacy.

[Felix]

[dhex]

no i love the fuck out of people like pynchon and shit. delillo is kind of a whiner though.

also i am terribly heartened that people seem to be digging on bioshock. i was somewhat concerned it was going to get capped in the chaps by some cross dev shit.

also booj i have no idea what you're talking about and bloom is most certainly a hero. rock over london, et al.
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[Lestrade]

Only at SelectButton can someone start a topic about a game demo that has everyone heading to the library.

I've never read Rand, but now I kind of want to, even if it's terrible. I want to see for myself.
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Illustration Portfolio | The Gamer's Quarter

[boojiboy7]

[Kipple]

Rock over London! Rock on Chicago. Wheaties: breakfast of champions.

[dhex]

rock on chicago.

i did not mean to compare the authorial merits of joyce and rand (that's like bringing a hand grenade to a bake sale competition) but to point out that rand gets shit for having jerky characters xyz because of who she was. as predator mentioned, "It's like she baked a really good cake (or bad, whatever), and then tried to use it to do auto repair." were her values more communitarian and her politics leftist it wouldn't have been as widespread an issue, since bad commie writers go for about three dozen a pound at your local organic co-op greenmarket. (protip: you can also pick them for free in and around union square, though they will need to be thoroughly washed.)

but onto things more bioshocky, from cult of rapture:
[url=

[boojiboy7]

[Shapermc]

So, uh, I'm about 3 chapters into The Fountainhead and it's not horrible! Actually, considering it was written in the 40's it's pretty readable where I find a lot of stuff from that time hard to deal with. Am I missing something or has it just not worn itself out yet?

I enjoy the irony of reading this book in conjunction with Bioshock as the fountainhead is about eccentric architects.
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The bad sleep well at The Gamer's Quarter

[boojiboy7]

No, Rand is enjoyable enough as a read. In fact, from what I know of the Fountainhead, it doesn't get that weird till about halfway through. I haven't read it though, so ask Goose. Atlas Shrugged is insane from like the first 10 pages on.

Also, yeah, Andrew Ryan from Bioshock is meant to be a Rand character, so your joining it up to the Fountainhead is intentional. Now, what Rand character he is meant to be is a little rougher to directly align. I mean, he is an architect, but he is also totally John Galt.

[Shapermc]

[Predator Goose]

[boojiboy7]

I don't have links to developers, but I can go on what I know about Rand and what I know from the demo.

dhex put a link above though, I think.

Anyhow, Rand's personal philosophy is a little hard to glibly summarize. It's called Objectivism, and basically what it ends up meaning is that every person should be entitled to everything they can get and shouldn't be held back fiscally or morally by anyone else in society. That doesn't cover it all, but you can look at Wikipedia or finish Fountainhead to get the full gist.

Anyhow (ATLAST SHRUGGED SPOILERS) In AS, John Galt sets up a hidden society where all the smart and hardworking people who follow Rand's ideas and are sick of people taking their shit go. It appears in Bioshock that Andrew Ryan thought a similar way, and set up Rapture as such. When you come into the game, the Rapture project seems to have gone wrong, and it seems to be linked to the plasmids, which were made by scientists "freed from morality" (or some such as Ryan's voice tells you on the sub ride). So the game seems to be about what would bring such a society down in the end, maybe?

[Predator Goose]

Here's the link where I originally found out about the connection from: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/32465?from=30&comments_per_page=30
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I can no longer shop happily.

[boojiboy7]

[Predator Goose]

[Shapermc]

[brillo]

[Felix]

i'm pretty sure that's the exact weakest video card that will work, actually.

[Kipple]

The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to believe that this demo is in fact a clever ruse, designed to get the waiting-for-Halo crowd to buy Bioshock.

In the interviews, Levine always talks about the relative scarcity of ammo, and about how you can free-roam through the city to a great extent, and about the "ecosystem" in place. None of that is even hinted at in the demo, which is linear, doesn't involve the big daddy/little sister "ecosystem," and gives you tons of ammo to work with. This makes me think that the demo is not completely representative of the full game. It's at best mostly representative of the game.

Instead the demo kind of feels like a pretty, atmospheric run-'n-gun, which I think is probably the intent. Especially considering that the demo is coincidentally only available on the 360, home of Halo. PC gamers don't need to be convinced to buy this, but the Halo crowd does.*

What I'm saying, I guess, is that in the case of Bioshock we should probably be waiting for the full game to make critical commentary on its gameplay aspects, because I think the aim of this demo is to convince the previously-uninterested FPS fans to buy, not to satisfy people familiar with System Shock 2.

Art direction sure is pretty though, huh.


*I know the PC demo is coming "soon". Still, the early release on 360 points to who the target market for the demo is, don't it.

[Shapermc]

[Kipple]