[internisus]

Select Button, I have never needed your help more than I do now.

I don't know anything about computers.

I mean, I know kind of a little, I think. I know I need a motherboard, a processor (are those the same thing?!), a video card, a sound card, a hard drive, RAM, DVD-R drive, and a case. And a keyboard, mouse, monitor, and headphones. This is the extent of my knowledge of what makes up a computer.

I figure that I have, at maximum, this to spend:

$900 for the computer itself
$200 for the monitor
$100 for a pair of headphones

$1200 total budget. This leaves me $100 for immediate purchase of sweet games while still feeling comfortable about my wallet.

My goal is a pretty-much top-of-the-line-if-possible Windows-based machine.

I want to be able to run you know STALKER, Bioshock, HL2 Episode 2, Crysis, etc. etc. perfectly as maxed settings. It would be nice to be confident about running everything that comes out over the next year just as well without needing to upgrade anything. I mean, I am going to be using this for a lot more than playing games, but I figure that is where I'll need to maximize specs. I feel like I've spent my whole life within a few hundred megs of hard drive capacity, so I'd like a whole lot of space, as well. I'm a media and information packrat.

So please help me to put this together. Please tell me if the above is a reasonable expectation at that price.

Where do I want to go for these things? Newegg.com?

I'd like the monitor to be widescreen and preferably the next size up from 19 inches, whatever that is. I want to impress myself. Do I need to consider its adaptability? I want to be able to live in a high resolution but also play Knytt Stories happily.

I figure for headphones I'll get a decent pair of Grados or whatever you tell me is good for simulating surround sound in games.

This is my first computer since the machine I received as a gift in 2001, and that one wasn't really tip-top for its time. So this is a big deal for me, and I want to do it right.

I'll be putting it together myself, learning as I go. I'll also be asking you for help with this or for (visual) explanatory resources online.

I intend to retrieve old data off of a hard drive in the computer I am using now as well as a hard drive in a computer than no longer works. How can I do this directly?

Do I want Vista? Is that expensive? Will I need to change my cost figures to incorporate it?

It will likely be possible for me to buy all of these things and be prepared to put them together as early as one week from now.

Thanks for anything you can help me with.

[Talbain]

If you just want something that works/gets the job done, I'd recommend something like HP. If you're trying to make it yourself, newegg is where you're going to start and there are a few other computer parts distributors, but Newegg is generally the starting place for people who don't make compies on a normal basis (as their system can tell you, sometimes, if your parts are conflicting; such as a CPU not being attachable to your motherboard due to pin count).
_________________

[Felix]

i posted in your other topic, guardian.

i think it might've been the ep2 topic actually?

[Rob]

If you want to run everything coming in the next year at top settings, perfectly, I do not believe you can do it for $900. You'll be spending $500 at least on the graphics card alone. If you were to add a couple hundred more dollars to your estimate, you could probably get off fairly well (still wouldn't be "maxed"). I'd guess 1300 for the system alone.

Granted, you can still get a very good rig for 900, but I don't know if it will last as long as you'll want it too.

Oh, and you're going to want to add some sort of aftermarket cooling to your equipment list. And you may not need a soundcard.

[DJ]

Intern I just did this and know how to put everything in layman's terms. Shoot me an e-mail (my name at gee mail dot com) and we'll figure something out over IM or the phone.
_________________

[Felix]

the breakdown of what i posted in the ep2 topic is more or less as such:

radeon hd 2600xt, 512m
athenatech uATX case w/ 350w psu
- the $100 2x1Gb memory deal of the week
- a core 2 duo
- the cheapest uATX, c2d supporting mobo you can find that's from a decent manufacturer
- i'm sure you have a hard drive and DVD you can borrow from someplace

~ $500

[internisus]

Talbain: Yeah, I really want to build it myself. The customization is important to me, and I am eagerly looking forward to finally learning stuff about computers. Thanks for spelling out a whole issue I hadn't even planned on worrying about -- compatibility. =(

[Talbain]

You can pirate Windows, but you won't get updates. Then again, the pirated versions of Windows I've used have never had any problems, and most of them have Service Pack 2.
_________________

[Panoptic]

Well, here's my suggestions:

Motherboard: Asus P5B Deluxe [LINK] (Open box, but it's under warranty, so it saves you some cash - plus if it's bad they'll send you a new one). I chose this board for its super simple "Automatic" overclocking - it handles voltage adjustment for you.

CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E2140 [LINK] Core 2-based Allendale core processor. Only has 1MB of Level 2 cache, and the clock speed is kind of slow, but with proper cooling, it can be overclocked to outrun the fastest Duo's Intel has out right now. Though, it can be overclocked to fairly quick levels with the stock heatsink.

Memory: 2GB Mushkin DDR2-PC26400 [LINK] A lot of people would suggest Corsair; I'm running Corsair now and find they have really high RMA rates, so I'm reluctant to suggest them.

Video card (heavy gaming) EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB [LINK]
(light/lower-res gaming) EVGA GeForce 8600GTS 512MB [LINK]

Power Supply: Mushkin 680W Active PFC [LINK]

Heatsink + Fan: Thermalright Ultra 120-Extreme + Scythe [LINK][LINK]

If you go with the 8800GTS, that system would eat up most of your budget there, and you'd still need a case, hard drive, optical drive(s), and Windows, if you're going to pay for it. Either way, that's a ridiculously powerful system and if you take overclocking into the mix, I don't think you'll find more powerful hardware for anywhere near the price. Unfortunately, you're looking at pushing your budget probably 75% over what it is to get a system that'll handle Crysis maxed out, even if you're overclocking the hell out of it. An overclocked 8800GTX would likely handle it, but reports trickling in are saying people will need Nvidia's upcoming 9800GTX to handle it maxed out, and that'll probably hit you for $600+ by itself.

[Eudaimon]

Motherboard: most important thing is to make sure it fits with the CPU you're buying.

Second is what kind of RAM it's compatible with. I'd suggest getting something that supports at least DDR 800; decent speed, easily available. Also make sure to take into account the number of slots it has for RAM. If it only has 2 slots, you probably want to get a large single chip of RAM rather than a double chip.

Also you've got to watch the size; you probably want a mini- or micro-ATX motherboard if you plan on getting one of those cubey cases. Just make sure your case mentions that it's compatible with your motherboard's form factor.

Now, expansion slots. The standard for for video cards these days is PCI-express. Faster is better, you should probably look for 16x for what you want. If you want to do one of those dual video cards things, you'll need two slots. It's always good to have a few PCI slots, as well, because you can get just about any kind of expansion you'd want with those.

I can't say I've looked much into sound cards. Suffice it to say that if you plan on always using headphones, you can probably get away with using the sound hardware built into the motherboard.

You might want to take note of the ports built into the motherboard, too, such as USB or ethernet. You can always add more with a PCI card, but if you don't have very many PCI slots it can get to be a problem.

Make sure you know what kind of drive attachments your motherboard can handle. You don't want to be buying SATA drives if your board only has EIDE ports.

So yeah, that's mostly what you want to look for in a motherboard.

[Talbain]

[Felix]

[internisus]

Oh my god. This is a little overwhelming. I'm only going to respond to a few things that I want to get clear immediately, first. I'll reread this intel later and see what specific points I need to follow-up on.

But first of all, thanks for all the thorough advice!

Alright now, no Vista; just XP. I can make it less ugly, right? But I'm a little unclear still on the updates thing. How would I get automatic updates without having them download automatically or installing? But it sounds like -- for security (which I have never, ever worried about; who would want to gain access to my computer?) -- I should just stick to the original XP without any updates. Is this right?

What is the quality of sound with just the motherboard and no soundcard usually like? If I buy, for instance, a decent $75 pair of Grados, will I be disappointed by how games and music sound? Also, I am a bit of an audiophile, though my 1985 Buick Regal's sound system is a stock 2-speaker tinny thing and I've come to like for what it is. I mean, I'm not unadaptable. But I do mix music and things, and I do enjoy high reference-quality playback. And, again, it would be nice for me to experience something like surround sound for the first time ever in videogames. I've been playing shit with like a $20 pair of Sony something-or-others, and I'd like to change this just as much as I'd like to change the graphic quality and framerate I get in Half-Life 2. So do I need a soundcard then?

Also, FYI all: I have never understood the whole overclocking thing. What exactly it is (does it mean using more power than something should for greater performance?), how it's done, why it's done, what the risks are, how it influences purchasing decisions and performance expectations, whether overclocking people overclock all the time or just when they need a boost, etc.

I am starting to understand the myriad possibilities involved in putting together a computer (which is really cool and exciting) and that subsequently there are many different possible approaches. Now, it sounds like I will not be able to run Crysis at max settings without increasing my budget. That is kind of annoying, but let's finish this thought. I have two major options here: I can hold out until I have more money for this operation and put together a really ridiculous machine, or I can accept this state of affairs and build something more reasonable, fully planning to upgrade here and there and swap out components for years like a normal person.

This is a lot like when I put together my first audio rig; I was so excited by the project and wanted my first taste of audiophilia to be really top-notch, so I went all-out. I bought a $900 cd player, a $650 amp, a $350 pair of headphones, a $120 after-market cable for the phones, a $200 power regulator... the interconnects were Cardas Golden Reference. I think the .5m pair was like... I don't remember. Maybe $700. Sweet reckoning jesus in heaven it was marvelous, and I loved it for years, but now that I have some perspective I realize Holy Crap that was pretty ridiculous of me. It's in my nature to want the very best version of anything I can get so that my first experience of it is the best it can be. Also, I'm uncomfortable with change. So I have to fight that:

Because it seems like what I should do here is to take a middle-road between Felix's minimalistic approach (though maybe you should explain it to me more; maybe it is right for me) and a top-of-the-line machine. Maybe I should have faith in the fact that all of the reasonably priced computer parts everyone is showing me are indicative of today's tech market and are going to be perfectly decent. So I guess I should just try for that: a very good computer for right now. Something that can max out HL2: Episode 2 but not Crysis -- so long as I'll be able to run Crysis at a decent level. Does that sound realistic? And

But that leads to new issues in planning, because that means I have to be sure to purchase parts with much swapping in the machine's future. The case may have to be able to accommodate more than it seems like just from what I buy now, for example. I have to be careful that the motherboard I pick up is widely compatible. That sort of thing, right?

Also, it sounds like I could actually scale my budget back one or two hundred dollars, which would make me extra comfortable.

So what should I do? What approach is right for me?

Felix, I'm interested in the idea of a small case that's packed full -- used to its maximum potential. Performance over quantity and the appearance of quality. That sounds like what you're about, if I understand right. But does such a machine have an overly constrictive future in upgrading individual components?

[Broco]

[internisus]

I'm fairly sure that, despite running adaware every so often, every computer I've had at home since dial-up has been a part of that net. I equate a computer's age with a decline in performance due to slowdown and accumulated, unexplained processes in task manager.

But if I use a firewall, at least on this computer, my internet connection basically ceases. And if I got past that I'm pretty sure bittorrent can't work through a firewall, right?

When I build this computer, I am going to have more comprehensive antivirus and such than Norton; it's part of the whole super-streamlined Windows thing that offers no information at all on what's really happening.

Part of my confusion about security is that I don't understand what a firewall does. Does it stop those bots and such from taking root at all? Don't those come in attached to things I download? Or does it stop unauthorized outgoing transmissions so that they become ineffectual?

Would you guys believe that I went to High Technology High School? Using computers was part of that technology, but I never learned a damn thing about them. Though I did make arcanoid in Java afterschool for a time. That sucked. I also learned machine code. That was a little cooler.

[Talbain]

A good way to protect yourself from lots of junk is to just use a router. It will protect you from lots of stuff straight off.

uTorrent can work even if you are firewalled. I don't know about other torrent programs, though I assume they can as well.

A software firewall protects you from incoming things to an extent. A basic definition is something that blocks or attempts to block things from accessing and operating on your computer without your authorization. Very bad firewalls (such as Spybot S&D) can completely prevent you from having access to your computer, while good ones (such as Norton) are much more user-friendly.

A hardware firewall (on the consumer end, this is usually comprised of routers) monitors incoming and outgoing signals through the internet. Properly configured, it can limit unauthorized access to computers within its network.

A still more basic way to think of a "firewall" is simply something that puts a first-line defense around a computer or computers.
_________________

[Felix]

as far as firewalls go, pretty much the easiest, most common, perfectly efficient way of doing things nowadays is to go through a router and have the SP2 firewall turned on. so not to worry. also, you can choose to forward specific ports, so bittorrent can work just fine.

anywho- no, going small does not really constrict you, so long as you don't go too small. you'd only be limited insofar as certain logical limitations would be implied; if the power supply is built into the case and proprietary, for example, you're not replacing it, and you probably aren't fitting two video cards to work in tandem (yes people do this nowadays) in there without some heat issues. if you plan on having more than two hard drives and more than one optical drive, no, it's probably not for you, but apart from that. also keep in mind that most off the shelf cases you can buy which aren't marked "micro" or something to that extent are really absurdly large.

as for the soundcard question: nobody i know has a sound card, and i would keep on saying no to you beyond a shadow of a doubt if you hadn't said the word "mixing". if that gives you a better idea.

valve games work just fine on nvidia cards. they're just optimized for ati, and they happen to be practically the only ones.

[internisus]

Okay, okay. Well, the internet connection that comes into our house goes through a router; one of the things that I'll do later is find out how to evaluate the protection I will receive from this specific router when I hook my machine up to it.

So, uh, another thing here is that Newegg offers Bill Me Later. I might consider adding up to another thousand dollars to my budget if I can do that. Before I would use such a thing I would be very sure of my financial future and ability to pay off prior to the deadline date when fees kick in, of course. But, while I have to consider things based on the events of the next week, it's a strong possibility.

The only thing is that some of the explanations make it sound like a customer's ability to use Bill Me Later is contingent upon a review of credit rating and such, while others say that no prior approval is required. It's very confusing.

[internisus]

[Eudaimon]

I'm currently running on a "small" computer I built this summer. Here's my case. I originally had some reservations because some reviews said it was a bit of a puzzle to fit everything in, but it really wasn't. I've only had a couple problems with it, the first being that my optical drive hates running on its side so I have to turn it horizontal for that, and the second is that there's no way for a full sized PCI card to fit in there normally. There are ways around this, but the main problem is that it's probably going to be pretty hard to find a video card that'll fit when I finally get around to it (I'm running on the built-in GeForce 6100 on my motherboard).

I can't say I've done a whole lot of research into cases, but really, just look around and find what you think looks good.

[Panoptic]

Pretty much any Athlon 64 or Core 2 system can chew up and spit out the Source engine. I've ran Source games at 1920x1200 with everything maxed for probably three years now.

As far as overclocking goes - well, I tend to purchase components solely on their overclocking ability. For example, my last three processors were an AMD Opteron 146 overclocked from 2.0GHz to 3.0GHz using a Thermalright SI-120 and Panaflo M1A, an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 overclocked from 2.13 to 3.20 with a Thermalright SI-128 and Panaflo M1A, and my current CPU, a Core 2 Extreme Quad QX6700 overclocked from 2.66 to 3.8GHz with a Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme and... Panaflo M1A (will probably swap it for something a bit quieter). What you're essentially doing is adjusting the timing of the components and making all those (millions upon millions of) transistors switch at higher speeds. Of course, the higher amount of electrons running through the circuits means a couple of things: 1) More voltage is required to push everything through the CPU, and 2) More heat is generated. Too much voltage can instantly kill a CPU, and too much heat can lead to failure as well. There's warning signs of approaching the limits well before components will fail, however it's a good idea to read a bunch of guides and ease into it.

There's a few ways of overclocking, however doing it properly will almost always require a larger outlay of cash on the motherboard, as the low-end $60-80 boards typically don't give you enough options to do it properly. A good motherboard will give you multipliers for all the buses in the system, and your memory (CPU multis are usually available too, but most CPU's nowadays have their multis locked), so you can increase your CPU's speed without putting stress on other components (RAM, PCI cards, etc). Asus' Ai-series motherboards simplify this further by detecting the amount of voltage required by the CPU and adjusting it automatically as it needs. On my Core 2's, I've literally just changed the FSB speed and turned the memory multi down one or two notches, and that was it. Far cry from the old days of changing jumpers on motherboards.

Anyway, if you're willing to do it, choosing components from a line of CPU's known to hit high speeds then overclocking can save you a lot of money - you just have to know the risks associated. Myself, I'm not very fond of small cases. Less room for huge heatsinks and lower airflow. Granted, based on what you just read, I'm sure you can venture a guess as to why.

[internisus]

[internisus]

[Felix]

what you've got to watch out for, though, is that case's 250w PSU, and the fact that it only has "low profile" (read: not any video card to speak of) PCI slots.

fans are also case-dependent, and more or less a numerical thing. do not get any case that has fans >60mm; they will be loud. 2x40mm are typically much quieter than even one 60mm, also.

also, don't spend more than $30 on a dvd drive.

[Eudaimon]

[Panoptic]

In my experience, larger fans with equal air movement levels are dramatically quieter than smaller fans, due to lower RPM rates; I exclusively use 120mm fans (excepting the non-replaceable fan in my power supply). A small case isn't going to be quiet if you want a lot of power; it's either going to be really loud, or, given the kind of power you're looking for, really hot.

As far as the benefits of overclocking go, well... I've found that Core 2's don't really liven up until the mid 2GHz range, and they really take the f- off when you get to 3GHz territory. A good system with well-chosen components and safe overclock levels can easily framerate increases of 40+%. This isn't to say I'm trying to convince you to overclock, but (IMO!) the benefits outweigh the risks if you do your research on what components can be safely overclocked, and really, there's enough information out there to take the guesswork out of it - plus, the Core 2's are very easily overclocked, even if you only want to push them a few hundred MHz. In my 13 years overclocking computers, I've not once burned a component.

[internisus]

So I was not approved for a line of credit. I'm still going to try the BillMeLater 90-day thing, and anyway if I can't do that either I'd still like to be ready with the parts I want as soon as I'm comfortable making the purchase. So I'm trying to fit things together now.

I really am kind of in love with that too-small case that Eudaimon is running. The dearth of fitting videocards and lack of space for airflow and heatsink sound like deal breakers, though, if I understand right. But damn, look at it!



And it's so small! And it weighs a full ten pounds! I checked that company's other merchandise on newegg and saw nothing remotely similar. My heart is breaking! Maybe I should go for like a really basic computer with this case right now and build a better one, really going nuts, when I have more money. Like, if I could just say fuck it to whatever games haven't come out yet and put together something small and very affordable with this case that could still do a hell of a thing with Episode 2 and STALKER and Bioshock, I would be very happy with that. But unless there are low-profile videocards up to that task (that I'll be able to find and buy), it's probably impossible.

Actually all of the cases on newegg except this one are ugly. Felix that includes your Athenatech recommendation. It's the worst of the bunch! This is terrible.

So here's a question! What are expansion slots for? I mean these:



Also the computer I am using right now has stuff in the front (and probably back) that I don't know. It has a thing that says "SD/MMC/SM/MS/MS-PRO" and another next to it that says "CF/Microdrive." What are these weird-looking things? Also this computer has an AMD Sempron 3300+ processor, an nVIDIA GeForce 6100, and a 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN. Now, quick, tell me how awesome the future is.

Also also, how would anyone ever use 5 USB ports at the same time?

Anyway, I'm still confused on the fan-noise issue. I mean, Felix and Panoptic, you two are flat-out contradicting each other on this.

And I'm definitely going to need advice about monitors if anyone is up to that...

[Felix]

honestly, guardian, the athenatech case is kind of a miracle combination of form and function - it's not THAT big, and 350w is plenty for powerful but energy efficient parts like the hd2600.

trying to plan around low-profile videocards is not worth it, honest. expansion slots are what you plug PCI devices (like videocards or wireless network cards) into. it's (yet another) case of the piece being standardized ten years ago too a size which is now effectively double what is really needed (go buy a modern wireless card for example; it'll look like an L).

SD/MMC/CF etc. are all memory card readers.

[internisus]

I'm sure it's a decent case. I just think it's ugly (this is kind of important to me... why not have a beautiful case if you can?) and... wouldn't I rather choose my own power supply and put it in myself? Do most cases come with power supplies?

Sorry if I'm being a pain. Newegg's server seems to be messed up at the moment. If anyone has thoughts on where I could find a case as nice as that one I like but a little bigger so I can fit PCI video cards and overclock without creating a furnace, well, I'd appreciate that. I kind of can't stand ugly electronics equipment; that was a definite factor back when I put together my audio setup. Like this lovely here:



Since I didn't put this guy together, it was just good research and fortune that it worked as well as it did with everything else. But I will be putting this machine together, and I want to be proud of how it looks on the outside too.

Should I care about memory card readers? Actually, in general, is there anything that isn't done via USB nowadays that I should be cognizant of?

[Felix]

honestly, in theory you could fit most/all full size PCI cards into low-profile slots by hacking off the far end of the piece which is supposed to face outside of the case.

what i mean is: http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/6721.jpg

i've never actually worked with low-profile cases before; my understanding is that the metal bar just juts out an inch or two not quite so far.

in the case of the (remarkably conservatively designed) video card i keep telling you to buy, mind you:
http://regmedia.co.uk/2007/05/14/amd_2600_xt_1.jpg

you wouldn't have so much luck.

[internisus]

Okay, I am done being a prude. I just want a pretty decent modern computer; I'll rebuild it to prettiness and perfection and bells and whistles later when I have money to burn. So I'm ready to do this right now if I can keep the cost down.

So. I was looking at this case but then realized that it doesn't come with a PSU, and suddenly I realized how cost-saving it is to get that Athenatech you suggest, Felix. So I think I'm on-board with that case. I don't mind that it allegedly makes a little noise. Like I said, rebuild when I can afford it. So my question now is: will the PSU and fans in that case be alright with overclocking a c2d?

And then there's the Radeon. Again, much cheaper to go with your suggestion here than the 8800 or something. But how does the Radeon stack up to the 8800? Is it up to the task of the current games I keep mentioning -- minus Crysis, of course? And there are, like, a lot of different ones. I mean, you linked me to a search page for the Radeon, and there are a whole bunch of cards from different manufacturers that, to my untrained eye, appear to be interchangeable. Is that right? Does it matter which Radeon card I get?

I'm narrowing things down, so more questions to come.. and then the monitor... and then I'll submit my list of what I plan to take to check-out for your approval.

Almost there!

[internisus]

Okay, how different are the Intel Dual-Core and the Core 2 Duo? The former is obviously cheaper, but my impression is that getting much out of it would require overclocking. Now, I intend to overclock, which is why I'm asking about the Athenatech case, but it sounds like the Dual-Core needs rather particular conditions, or maybe some degree of expertise?

What should I do here?

[internisus]

[internisus]

I am looking at this hard drive, a Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000ABYS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM. I was basically looking for a 500GB at around $100 (this is at $130), and I compared the average speed and cache stats in search listing. This one is 16 MB cache, which means nothing to me. Is this a good hard drive? Reviewers seem happy, so long as they avoid a DOA.

This seems to be a very similar drive for $20 less. I think there is a 2 millisecond difference in write speed, in which case I don't mind paying $20 more for the above drive. Any thoughts?

[internisus]

I just did a search on the monitor I'm using now, which says NEC multisync LCD 1530V on the front, and every result that came up was for a 15" monitor. That's great, because it means that I can be happy with the 19" you suggested before, Felix. So a quick newegg search shows me some good-looking results for 19" widescreen LCD monitors, like this and this and this.

But I really have no idea what to look for in a monitor, especially as a gamer who likes old or indie low-resolution stuff but wants to enjoy current games in hi-rez widescreen glory. Is that kind of adaptability quantifiable or something?

1440 x 900 seems to be standard widescreen resolution. Is that right?

Woah, I just found a 20" widescreen in 1680 x 1050 recommended for $180 after rebate. LINK There's got to be something wrong with this thing. It's 1080p (you know I don't even know what that means) and DVI -- what is that, is it a thing where I use a specialized cable to go from the back of the video card to the monitor or something? But man this is looking like a good monitor to buy. Check it for me, please!

I still need to pick a cheap DVD-R drive. And 2GB of RAM is good enough, right? And I do need a heatsink?

It's looking like I can do this for under $1000 including monitor. That's what I'm shooting for, at least. It would help if the motherboard I was looking at didn't cost $200.

[internisus]

OKAY HERE IS MY LIST SO FAR

Some costs are estimates for those items where I haven't narrowed to a specific part yet -- marked by ~.

$70 Athenatech case with 350W PSU
~$140Radeon 2600XT 512MB But which one?
~$160Core 2 Duo But which one?
~$100Motherboard But I need to find one that is not this costly.
$130Western Digital 500GB hard drive
$90Mushkin 2GB RAM with nice rebate!
$65 Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler heatsink Do I really need this? Could I go cheaper?
$180SCEPTRE 20" 5ms DVI Widescreen 1080p 1680 x 1050 LCD Monitor

$935 total! Amazing! Though I don't know if there are shipping charges.

So I'm really happy with this pricetag right now. I need to narrow down the processor, motherboard, and videocard, and I'd like to verify the goodness of the other items listed, as well as their compatibility. And please tell me whether I really need a $65 heatsink in that specific case with those specific fans (especially since processors come with fans and heatsinks of their own), and whether that power source and those fans can manage overclocking on the processor and videocard.

Though it sounds like the overclocking heat issue is more in the motherboard? is that what I have to worry about?

And I still don't understand the difference between a Core 2 Duo like this one and a Dual-Core. I guess the C2D is a newer thing? There are so many varieties of it -- is the one I linked there good enough?

I still can't believe what I can do for under a thousand dollars. This is great! I think I'll be ordering on Monday and hopefully building by Friday!

[Panoptic]

On the hard drives, I'd say go for the cheaper one. They'll probably perform almost exactly the same.

Intel Dual Cores are basically Core 2's with some of the L2 cache memory disabled. For reference, a Dual Core (1MB L2) at 3.2 is about as fast as a Core 2 E63/6400 (2MB L2) @ 3.0 and a Core 2 E6600+ (4MB L2) at 2.8. Roughly. Personally, I'd try to save up for the Quad-core Q6600 (about $200$300), just because they overclock like mad if you get the right stepping, plus you'll be a bit more futureproof for games (if that's even possible).

Motherboards... I'd look up some reviews of Asus' new P35-based P5K motherboard. Found one for a decent price, but they seem to have quite a few negative reviews (on Newegg, at least... take those with a grain of salt).

Video... well, the only thing ATI has right now that can stand up to the 8800 is the 2900-series card, which is going to hit you for a lot more than that 2600, plus it's going to need a pretty big power supply. As far as which one to get - most companies just use the reference card design, so it almost never makes a difference.

Monitors... I've had great luck with Samsung so I usually just recommend them. Sceptre is kind of low-end stuff, so try to demo one if you can. I have a friend who had a Sceptre who replaced it immediately after seeing my Dell 2405.

This is probably my favorite choice for low-cost/high-performance cases, but you'll need a power supply. This one reviews favorably and is plenty potent for a quad-core, high-end video system.

[edit] The difference between the two CPU's you linked is (besides the clock speed) one has some of the L2 cache disabled. The higher-end one would probably clock higher, too.

If you push the budget there a bit, get the E6550 and drop the Thermalright Ultra-120 for now (unless you really want to crank it up). The 6550 would probably take being pushed to 2.6-2.7GHz and stay cool, which should hold you over until you decide you need something faster.

Bleh. If you go with that case, you'll need a mini motherboard (Asus' will have VM in the model number - enthusiasts usually shun the small ones as they don't perform as well and aren't as rigid component-wise as the full-size boards), it's going to run warm, a larger heat sink won't fit, and it's going to be a bitch to work in. Might I suggest this instead?

[internisus]

Thanks, I'll look into those things. Though I'm still hazy on the processor issue. I think I'm not really sold on the idea of overclocking. Rather, I'm not sure I should be choosing parts with the intent of overclocking when I'm going budget on the case, powersource, and cooling.

Plus, I'm not really interested so much in future proofing anymore. I'm giving that up. I just want a pretty great computer for right now that can do neat stuff and play Episode 2, STALKER, Bioshock, etc. And be a great DVD player. Those are the demands I intend to place on the hardware. Sure, I'll buy, say, Crysis when it comes out, and I'll play it on this machine. But if I can't max its settings, that's fine -- I'm sure it'll look great anyway! I'll upgrade down the road when I can afford it. This is just for right now.

So I'm not sure I should want to overclock. Let's say I get the Radeon 2600XT and that $75 Dual Core. Just running things default, would I see basically the best performance I could get on those games? What about a $145 Core 2? Do I really need to overclock, and won't I be spending more money on a mobo and heatsink if I do?

I feel like I should try to keep it cheap and simple and get power-hungry at a later date. All I really want is for someone to tell me, "Yes, with THIS processor and the Radeon you are going to be very happy playing the PC games you've been missing out on all year."

If I seem more reluctant than I did before, it's because I want to buy this shit and money is tight. If I don't nail the price -- if I decide that paying more for greater power is that important -- I'm going to have to wait another month or something to do this. And this is a long, long time coming.

[Panoptic]

If you drop the add-on heatsink entirely and go with this CPU, it'll be rockin' fast out of the box and give you huge overclocking headroom in the future if you decide you want to try it out. Then you can save a bit on the motherboard too. That Gigabyte is a fantastic board - just not as easy to overclock with as the Asus Ai boards.

The 2600 (and its rival, the 8600) is middle of the road and will require a lot of the high-end features of UE3 (Bioshock, Unreal Tournament 3) to be turned down or off to be playable at higher (1024x768+) resolutions. Half Life 2 should run well on it though.

Excluding my power supply, I only have a single rear exhaust 120mm fan cooling my case, so I think it'll be enough (I have a 120mm intake fan in front, too). Note that it has a spot to mount an additional 80mm fan in the front.

[Felix]

okay, yeah, we're starting to run up against a clear difference of opinions in here. as regards videocards:

the first digit of the model number is what series it is part of. radeon 8xxx matches up roughly to geforce 3/4, radeon 9xxx is a little better than geforce 5 but radeon Xxxx is a little worse than geforce 6, and then radeon X1xxx is equivalent to geforce 7 and radeon HD 2xxx is equivalent to geforce 8.

the second digit is how good the card is intended to be. 8/9 is top of the line, 6/7 is second-tier, anything below that is "budget." as a general rule, the second-tier card from a given generation will be not quite as powerful as the top of the line card from the previous generation, but will have whatever newer features were introduced with that line (such as dx10).

as such, radeon hd2600 = geforce 8600, which you don't see anyone recommending to you because, again, ati makes sensibly designed, efficient, relatively inexpensive yet relatively age-proof stuff, whereas with nvidia the idea is generally to get the best that there is.

DVI is the digital version of VGA (which is analog).

if you are not overclocking your processor, you do not need a heatsink (it comes with a stock one already). also, as regards motherboards, why not buy this one? (i'm kind of asking that rhetorically, you see; my experience is with nice little microATX stuff, which, yeah, that athenatech case requires.)

also, when buying an LCD monitor, you want to keep in mind that it will look dramatically better at the highest resolution it supports than any other due to the nature of LCD. while i think panoptic is exaggerating slightly to say that a 2600 will require most of bioshock's advanced features turned off to run well at, say, 1280x1024 (it won't), it's certainly going to take a performance hit if you start wanting to play games at 1920xfuckme, and again with an LCD you really really really want it running at its maximum resolution all of the time.

get a c2d rather than a dual-core, definitely, but do keep in mind that you start paying dramatically more money for less and less significant increases the faster you go. also, though it kind of goes without being said, in looking at the recommended system requirements for games (which, by the way, up until six months ago still standardized the processor speed in terms of a p4 - about half as efficient as a c2d), if you have a fast enough processor, then the game's not going to run any better for having a faster one. video cards are a different matter.

and hey, lest this topic stop sounding like "felix is cheap; panoptic is not," do you really think you need all that storage?

[Panoptic]

Now that's hardly fair - he said he wanted as near top-of-the-line as he could get in his budget, and a Micro system just isn't going to get him there. Packing a competent computer into a tiny space and building a game-ready, high powered monster (regardless of budget) are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I played Bioshock on my system (Core 2 Quad @ 3.8 / 7800GTX (overclocked)), and I had to turn it down to 1024x768 to get it to run comfortably with everything turned on. A 2600 is a fair drop below a 7800GTX, overclocked or not. Also, I think he's "pro-sumer" enough to care about the additional component quality and rigidity a step up from entry-level offers in the motherboard department (I mean, he did have a headphone rig worth over a grand).

Anyway, I went back through and came up with this list:

$50 Cooler Master Centurion http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
$90 OCZ StealthXStream 600W PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010
$110 GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059
$9 Scythe 80mm "Silent IC" case fan http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185035
$170 Intel Core 2 E6550 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115030
$90 2GB Mushkin DDR2 PC2-6400 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146673
$70 250GB Western Digital HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822144701
$290 EVGA 8800GTS 320MB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130082
$32 LiteOn 20X DVD-RW SATA http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106057

My math puts us at about $911 for the core computer itself, there (my list would have also allocated $80 to a nice G5 mouse and media keyboard). That processor and video card combo would shitstomp the Source engine and give you awesome performance at near maxed out settings in UE3. If you're balking at the price of the video card, you might look at this one (1950XT 512MB), which wouldn't have as much sheer power as the 8800GTS, but it'd be a big step above the 2600. Of course, this is all just personal, biased opinion.