The WoW thread

Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Wilkes, I understand your opinion, and WoW IS a complete waste of time, etc...

But just stay out of the WoW threads, man. Obviously you loathe the game, so why come into the threads about it?

By the way guys, I haven't played in a few weeks.

Ben Reed · Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: charge b, f + P

Since wilkes wants a more critical analysis of WoW, here's my take on it, broken down:

Cons:

- Like all MMOs, it is a timesink by its very nature. While WoW still makes mostly honest attempts to make the grinds interesting to keep people subscribing, it is still a subscription-driven game that requires lots of money to perpetuate its shiny Internet world, and as such the bottom line will always be to pry more playtime out of the subscriber, for better or for worse.

- Like all MMOs (except Guild Wars, but then again Guild Wars isn't a true MMO so much as a dungeon-crawler with a largely PvP bent), while success in WoW isn't necesarily defined by gear more than anything else (unless there is a HUGE gear deficit between players concerned or the player and the environment), even those who are content with low-end and middle-of-the-road gear will always be tempted by the allure of extra-shiny, more powerful items to make their character that little bit more potent. Hence how people who start off casually like me get, for better or worse, sucked into the world of endgame raids.

- Endgame raids, while they can admittedly be rather fun to conquer with a competent guild, do require a disproportionate amount of time invested in order to master them, on the order of multiple hours a day just inside that one dungeon.

How much time is sunk into them is largely determined by the quality and overall drive of your guild...you could be in a developing guild that struggles with Lucifron in Molten Core and the hassle of coordinating forty people who have never raided before, or you could be on the cutting edge of progression spending hundreds of gold and dozens of hours each night in Naxxramas trying to beat your fellow Alliance or the uber Horde guild on your realm to downing Four Horsemen for the fame and guild prestige it will deliver. Or you could be like my guild and not make much headway in Naxxramas but still have a decent bit of fun goofing off in Blackwing Lair, doing stupid stuff on bosses and laughing raucously when we wipe on a boss and someone who is getting chain shielded manages to pull not one, not two, but THREE of the big instance bosses into the same room. You can get a lot of things out of raiding, both good and bad, but the time commitment required will never budge.

And now the pros:

- As many of these online communities go, for the most part WoW is one of the most forgiving social gaming environments on the Internet. Griefers have limited power to molest sensitive or inexperienced players for their own amusement. There is little competition in most places for monster spawns and raw materials, there are PvE realms for people who would rather avoid being griefed altogether, and the game does an excellent job with the class quests and the newbie tutorial zones to hold the player's hand and demonstrate the ins and outs of the various player classes. If you play with people you know or at least kind of know, you can actually have a lot of fun in WoW.

- As a game to pick up and play, WoW is pretty easy to get into. The default UI has been gradually made much more flexible than it was in the early days of retail, and all the skills, player attributes, and items are labeled in great detail so that their functionality is, for the most part, easy to understand.

- PvP with an organized group can be very fun, and while endgame PvE raiding requires a massive time investment, some of its encounters are admittedly cleverly designed, and it never ceases to fascinate me just what one can accomplish when coordinating 15 to 40 different human beings against a monster capable of killing most players in two or three hits.

As specific examples, there is Battleguard Sartura in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj, who constantly resets aggro so that she is impossible to tank with a single Warrior, requiring a careful coordination among at least two tanks to keep her mostly rooted in place with coordinated Taunts. In addition to this, she cleaves and whirlwinds constantly, doing massive melee damage to anyone caught in her path, requiring otherwise stationary (and often thoroughly lazy!) mages and priests in soft armor to constantly move around the room in order to avoid her wrath. When she is not doing her massive whirlwind attack, there is about a ten-second window during which Paladins, Rogues, and Warriors can stun her, during which time the melee and ranged damage dealers have to strike as hard as they can and then immediately get out, lest they get utterly destroyed by her whirlwind she wakes up. (If you've played WoW but never saw Sartura, think of Herod in Scarlet Monastery hopped up on PCP.) It's a remarkable test of coordination for people who get lulled into a trance just tanking a mob on one side of the room and then the rest of the raid presses buttons for about 5 minutes to make friendly health bars go up and the boss's health bar go down.

There are also some neat encounters in Naxxramas, like Thaddeus the Frankenstein's-monster-esque homunculus, who uses the power of electricity to randomly assign positive or negative charges to people, forcing the raid to constantly readjust lest they zap themselves stupid. It sounds rather simple on paper, but actually getting 40 different people to move and react quickly and in harmonious motion requires a surprising amount of ability, and to see a rather difficult encounter succesfully defeated in such a manner actually does convey a genuine sense of accomplishment.

The only trouble, of course, is how many hours you have to commit on somebody else's schedule to make that happen.
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Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Good form, Ben Reed.

Also, it's an MMORPG. The whole point of these games is that you're playing them with so many other real life people. So of course the enjoyment you get out of them will mostly depend on if you've found some great people to play with. If you're a loner or just encounter a ton of assholes, then the game is going to be a complete bore.

But if you have some real life friends or some great guildmates (as I do), then the game is loads of fun. Loads.

remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

aowyn · Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Yea i would probably join you guys for that draenai thing, though I dont know if I could keep up with everyone.
A guild would be cool.

BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

double post

BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

What do we name the guild? "Select Button" ?

option · Joined: 06 Dec 2006

remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

It wasn't a melee sword, was it?

Unless it has int and is obviously a caster weapon, never roll on daggers or swords. You should never be meleeing, and your weapons are for stats only. Even then a hunter might still roll on a weapon with int too. But those fuckers thing everything is a hunter weapon, and if it has agi on it, it probably is.. Usually a staff will give the best stats. It's pretty rare from what i've found that a sword or dagger plus an offhand item will have better stats than a good staff.

Anyway, check this out if you want some strategy for next time you try it.
http://www.wow-pro.com/node/578

It's really not uncommon for people to wipe in the deadmines, as it's many players first instance, unless they're playing alts.

remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

The most important strategy (I think) that is mentioned in that guide is to pull enemies into your group with ranged attacks, picking them off one at a time rather than stirring up the entire beehive, so to speak. I've found this to be a pretty universal strategy, anyway, particularly when it's just me and my minion.

It might've been a melee sword, yeah. But the point was that everyone else had either Greeded or Passed on it, and I could use it. So. I thought it was pretty ridiculous that the guy would leave the party over something like that!
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BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Everyone else greeding doesn't mean you can need. They might still want it, to disenchant, or for an alt, or just to sell for money. But they don't actually NEED it for this character. Never need something unless you can and will use it. And even then, it's common courtesy to ask if you can need something. Most of the time it'll be fine, unless someone else needs it, then it's up to whatever you roll. Just always be conservative when needing.

As a warlock the only gear you should be rolling for is cloth stuff with stamina, int, and shadow or fire or generic magic spell damage increases, and wands, though priests should get preference for wands. Except for blues, your greens should be "X of the Eagle" items. Most caster blues will also have spirit, but it's not something you should be worried about getting a lot of. Stamina is what you really want. Be prepared to roll against mages and priests. Any gear that's useful to you should only be useful to them.

BEIGE · Joined: 04 Dec 2006

"Greed" usually means "it's not a direct upgrade for my character." I can't think of a single sword in the Deadmines with statistics for casters.

If I rolled need on everything I could technically use, everyone I grouped with would hate me - it prevents blues from being disenchanted and sold for mucho gold, and it screws up the distribution of loot so people can get their cash.

In higher level instances, that can give you a very bad reputation in game, even blacklisted. Best to be careful now.

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Guys if you want to all make new characters on a server, you should play on my server instead. Me and my friend are making a guild here soon, and I'm fairly certain we can make it a successful guild. You could all join! Deathwing Horde, dudes. Screw Draeni--they are dumb as shit and Blood Elves have godly racials so you should roll them even though they are also stupid. I just don't have it in me to start a new character, but I've got a level 29 warlock that I'll level with you guys when you get around my level.

Also, I can't really play until I find a way to make my internet connection not suck. My lag is always red and I can't do anything :(

Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Nah, I really think we should all start on a new server.

remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

I think so, too.
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BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Me 3.

An old server just isn't the same. A few people will be making new characters, but most will be working on getting to 70. On a new server everyone is starting from 1. The economy is fresher, and there's more people to party and do instances with.

Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Yeah, and we can totally dominate it with our presence.

BotageL · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:47 am

Someone buy me a copy of Burning Crusade and I'll come back for whatever you all end up doing.

Right now I'm going to have to spend all my available cash on Lost Planet really soon, so, uh, I can't get it myself!
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BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Sell some old shit on ebay. It's only 40 bucks.

Or put some stuff up for trade in the trading thread?

BEIGE · Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Horde or Alliance?

Also, suggestions for guild names!

"Do Not Touch"
"Let's Fighting Now"
"Huggy Bear"
"Excessive Force"
"Blastoencephalis"
"Shaq Fu"

BotageL · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:59 pm

I'd much rather roll Horde. I'm sick of the low-level alliance areas, and while rolling EITHER of the new races would help with that, I really miss The Barrens General. Plus, Blood Elves have awesome racials.

Voting "Shaq Fu" for Guild name.
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belthegor · Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: NY

Hey, I'll play with you guys! (Especially since my 360 is dead...)

BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Naw, it's already been decided as alliance.

Guild names:

"Belly Fire"

"Let's Dance"

"The Blue Hearts"

Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

We should go with the Blue Hearts.

And I'll go with whatever side you all do.

Though I'm really stoked about the Draenei! Look at them. They couldn't be much cooler.*

*unless they were goblins

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

I hate alliance :(

Still, if you guys do this I'll probably make a pally that I may or may not abandon before level 15 (especially since I'm about to be a guild leader, I guess?)

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

You guys should pick a server now, that way I can get a bit of a head start. I'll be spending most of my time getting my shaman to 70, so a bit of a buffer would allow me to keep up with you guys a little better. Maybe.

In fact, if you check out the main site you'll notice six new realms just opened yesterday. Pick one of 'em, or I'll do it for you.

Also, I'd greatly prefer a PvP realm if you guys are ok with that. Sure, getting ganked can be annoying, but a new server won't be filled with sixties, and world pvp is some of the most fun you can have in the game.

aowyn · Joined: 05 Dec 2006

Yea the Blue Hearts sounds great, and i dont really care if its a pvp or pve server.
Just as long as we get to have a fun guild together with the new races in a new server.
Im looking forward to it.
So is everyone getting the expansion the day it comes out(which is January 15th or 16th?)? I dont know if I will, guess ill try.

Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

It's the 16th I believe.

Yeah, I'll be getting it. I should definitely be done with Twilight Princess by then!

BotageL · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:32 am

remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

As attractive as the Draenei look, a Horde character sounds more and more fun all the time. The whole "FOR THE HORDE" thing is very very metal. I was pretty blown away yesterday when these two super-high-level Orcs assaulted Sentinel Hill and like 50 puny little humans could barely keep them under control. It was an extremely impressive sight to behold.

I think I'll make an Orc or Blood Elf just to play around with and see where that goes.
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Zebadayus · pelvis othello Joined: 05 Dec 2006

The Draenei, man.

BalbanesBeoulve · Malicious Bastard Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Oh wow. I didn't notice they opened up new realms. I guess they probably won't bother with new ones on the day burning crusade comes out. And even if they do, 12 days won't make a difference.

Here's the deal. I'm not going to be horde. If you guys want to be horde, don't let me stop you. But I've decided I'm making and playing a Draenei priest and at this point i'm not changing my mind. There's also no damn way I'm playing PVP. I've tried it, and i hated it. it's frustrating to me, and not fun at all.

So yeah, i'm just choosing a server.
Nordrassil PVE Pacific

If you guys want to join me, feel free. I made a human mage to level and earn some money before the burning crusade comes out in a week and a half. If you guys want to roll on a pvp server as horde, i wish you the best of luck. But if you want to come to this server, my mage's name is Balbaness since I'm reserving Balbanes for my main priest.

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

BB why do you hate the Horde so much :(

Maybe you masturbate to night elves I don't know, but horde is cooler ok.

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

That said, I'm making a Pally on your dumb little server now. Instead of ganking horde (boooo) I'll just play patty cake with them, I guess.

negativedge · banned Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Ok, little Honuk the Paladin is now level 5. Be afraid!

Ben Reed · Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Location: charge b, f + P

I will roll with whoever Legato rolls with until he gets bored of the game (assuming he ever gets it), which will hopefully be Horde, because I'm kinda torn between making yet another Undead Warrior (greatest Warrior race in the game for PvP, Will of the Forsaken is just plain hax) or a Blood Elf Paladin (I'm sorry...BLOOD KNIGHT).

You don't necessarily have to get to level 70 in order to have fun in WoW...if you're willing to run stuff like Deadmines and Wailing Caverns over and over again, you can just trick out low-level toons for running around the low-level PvP zones on a PvP server ganking people (especially fun as Undead Warrior in Darkshire, where even on PvP servers those dim-witted little Pally alts don't expect to even encounter someone with a red name, let alone have to fight them...they didn't even know where their freakin' shield button was so I Shield Bashed them with impunity.).

BGs would be a bit more problematic, though, as the people in the lower-level brackets in the new honor system will be either (a) abjectly terrible and won't even put up a fight, or (b) dedicated twinks who are played 9 times out of 10 by actual good players, and we will get steamrolled if not by skill then by raw gear. If you want to make a habit of low-level BGs, you're basically commited to twinking. In that respect I think making a little low-level roaming/semi-leveling group on a PvP server would be much more fun.
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BEIGE · Joined: 04 Dec 2006

Why all the Horde hate ITT? :(

Srsly.

BotageL · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:06 pm

Yeah, I ain't rolling Alliance again right now. Sorry. I'm tired of their side of things. I look forward to crushing your weak little blue man repeatedly in BGs, though, Balbanes! You'll be wearing cloth so I'll probably just have to look at you funny and you'll fall over dead.
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remote · Joined: 11 Dec 2006

I could've gone either way between Alliance and Horde, but getting a head start at this is kinda shitty. Isn't the idea here that we're all getting a fresh start together?
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